Budget Hi-Fi for the Broke College Guy - Vol. 1 (Oppo DV-980H v. Sony SCD-CD595)

RutgersFTW · August 2008

I've been ramming my head against the wall with an Oppo DV-980H. I've started at least three threads here asking for help, trying to figure out why the player's sound didn't match the vocabulary leveled at it in its countless reviews. I figured there was something wrong with my system, harsh amplification, whatever - but NEVER the enthroned, majestic, King-of-sub-$300 universal players, the Oppo DV-980H.

Yes, I know many of you spend more on cables than this, and even more on outboard DACs to plug said cables in. This thread is for those of us with light wallets and low credit limits.

Anyway, $169 was a stretch for me, but since I trusted I'd be getting the ultimate in sonic purity and listenable sound I took the plunge. Convenient, to boot!

That was three months ago, and I've had a number of disappointments with the player, here listed for convenience:

1st: Video cadence: when upconverted, animation looks terrible. Pop in a Simpsons DVD and try to enjoy it. It didn't help that this was the very first day I owned the player, and Oppo was quick to provide a helpful and detailed answer as to why it had these problems. Oddly enough, the Toshiba HD-A3 I'd replaced never had these problems (incidentally, it played Redbook CDs better too - more on that later). This has apparently been fixed by a firmware upgrade, but as I run it 480i I have no problems

2nd: Harsh sound on CDs, thin sound on SACDs. I've fought this harshness with everything I could, from new amps to cables to whatever short of power cords and other insanity. No offense intended with that "insanity," for those of you who own such products. Again, this thread is for those of us who cannot afford to fight for potential improvements immune to ABX'ing.

3rd: Slow and often unresponsive to eject, often requiring a full power cycle to open. This also began the first day, and Oppo's tech insisted it was a normal side-effect of its memory feature (saving location). That it occurs most frequently after power-on was lost on the tech.

4th: Hi-def audio only for hi-def displays. This makes no sense to me. I have a regular 27" WEGA from Craigslist for $50. It has a very nice picture and suits me fine since I prize music above all else (the disappointing upconversion was at dad's house who wanted to see what upconversion would do for his 65" Mitsubishi DLP). You have to set it to 720p or 1080i to get the highest bit rates and such. Pure silliness.

I have more grievances, but these are the main ones. Somehow, I lived with this as my exclusive d0-everything transport for a quarter of a year, but now I despise it.

Again - I'm not buying an external DAC, new cables to use as tone controls ("cables are your tone controls" - what about, I don't know, TONE CONTROLS, or an EQ?), or any other upgrades. Out of the box performance is all that matters to me and 99.9% of the people who buy these players.

Second installment - the revelation! soon to come!

RutgersFTW · August 2008

So anyway, Stereophile came out last month with the infamous Sony Playstation 1001 model review. I've followed the PS1 phenomenon for a while as I used to have one of those units and it supplied my music through my teenage years but long ago ceased to function. See, what all the audiophiles in the world who INSIST that only the 1001-revision PS1 sounds amazing while the rest are utter garbage, but Sony redesigned the unit to replace super-cheap plastic transport parts that needed to be swapped out within a year or two of light use. Remember seeing Playstations that only worked upside down? The 1001 model. John Atkinson said the measured performance of the more reliable 7501 model was "far less impressive" than the 1001, yet DIDN'T POST THE MEASUREMENTS. Way to go yet again, Stereophile.

Still, seeing Art Dudley describe things I already knew got me thinking I should hook up my Playstation 2 and try a few CDs through it. I didn't expect much as the audiophiles of the internet all told me everything but the 1001 sounded like garbage, but still, I thought I'd give it a go. Instantly, music sounded like music again. Lucinda Williams's excellent Essence had the air and space I'd always loved, and every ounce of regret conveyed by her vibrato hit me. No shrillness, no harshness, just music. My Morning Jacket's Z, a remarkably dynamic recording, sounded much nicer but still got compressed and distorted in its crowded passages. All the same, a monster improvement over the Oppo.

And the final injustice - the damn PS2 looks better at 480i than the Oppo, with better color saturation and detail. I KNOW its measured performance at Secrets and other sites is full of errors, but watching Toy Story 2, Cache, and My Morning Jacket's Okononos (I'm on a bit of a kick of late) was satisying and more than adequate. Again, a hi-def display is probably more revealing, but audio is my priority and Sony delivered the goods here.

At the very least, the Oppo had to go. I'm offering it in the flea market if anyone wants it and it's listen on Craigslist. I know it has many fans, and that's awesome. I'm not one.

Still, my budget was just about tapped and I needed to enjoy my music again (which is harder than you might think once you start reading any audio publication). I'm a musician first and a listener second, and recent upgrades to my actual instruments prevented any significant investment in my reproductive gear (heh). No matter how great your stereo sounds, nothing beats live music, even when played ineptly.

Part 3 - the savior arrives! soon to come

RutgersFTW · August 2008

In my usual, frustrated, and distracted way searching for a good buy (to include Goodwill, eBay, Craigslist, and parts beyond) a Head-Fier pointed out that SonyStyle had the SCD-CE595 model for $59 again, this time with free shipping and plentiful coupon codes. I wasn't really looking for a changer, but a 16 pound dedicated music player with no video outputs? With a warranty? Fine by me.

Now I haven't had this unit long enough to post a legitimate review, but suffice to say I'm much happier with it. Unsurprisingly, it exceeds the capabilities of the PS2 which still performs much better than a device the size of a paperback book that can apparently launch nuclear missiles should. My CDs (all 1,200 or so of them) sound great again, and my much less critical movie watching is more than satisfied by the PS2.

I look forward to intensive listening to this player for another few weeks, but despite all the dismissive "don't buy a Sony player outside of the ES line, they're all junk" spouted by the guys with either a lot of money or a lot of debt (or both) here and elsewhere, this is a phenomenal bargain. Come on, it plays SACDs for under $60. It probably plays RedBook cds better than almost any DVD player could. This player is a winner.

zombie boy 2000 · August 2008

Sweet reviews! And from a fellow My Morning Jacket junkie, as well.

Shicks18 · August 2008

Sorry to hear your disappointment in the oppo. For $10 more you could have gotten a refurb Marantz universal SACD, CD, DVD upscaling player. I am sure that would outperform an Oppo.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

Sweet reviews! And from a fellow My Morning Jacket junkie, as well.

Thanks, and I'm totally going to their New Year's Eve show at Madison Square Garden this year. I hope it's epic.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

Shicks18 wrote: »

Sorry to hear your disappointment in the oppo. For $10 more you could have gotten a refurb Marantz universal SACD, CD, DVD upscaling player. I am sure that would outperform an Oppo.

I know, and I'd been considering doing just that (or a refurb Denon 29xx, or other well regarded machine) but at the price of $53.99 shipped I bit the bullet and I'm happy to have done so.

As for the Oppo, I'd binged on reviews from everywhere, cNet to Stereophile, Audiogon to Audioholics to AudioKarma to AudioAsylum. You quickly realize that these $**** players that sound like $XXXX players reviews aren't incredibly helpful, but normally not quickly enough to hold on to your cash.

zombie boy 2000 · August 2008

I've seen 'em over fifty times and they are ALWAYS stellar.

F1nut · August 2008

I look forward to intensive listening to this player for another few weeks, but despite all the dismissive "don't buy a Sony player outside of the ES line, they're all junk" spouted by the guys with either a lot of money or a lot of debt (or both) here and elsewhere, this is a phenomenal bargain. Come on, it plays SACDs for under $60. It probably plays RedBook cds better than almost any DVD player could. This player is a winner.

I'm glad you found something pleasing to your ears. That said, should you ever get a chance to listen to a better unit, I think you'll understand the comments made by the "guys with either a lot of money or a lot of debt (or both) here and elsewhere."

For the record, I would never recommended Oppo to you or anyone else for that matter.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

F1nut wrote: »

For the record, I would never recommended Oppo to you or anyone else for that matter.

See, this is the message that needs to get out more. It's a universal player that tackles every possible audio format but doesn't sound very nice with any of them.

I actually heard a setup of two huge power amps (SoundStream? or something like that, one was black and one was chrome and they looked impressive) driving Tyler Acoustics towers with twin 7" woofers and a Arcam CD player last month (I didn't see the pre-amp, it was in a custom cabinet with lots of forced ventilation). It was very easy on the ears, but it was also, paradoxically, the elixer that cured me of my quest. He told me he'd spent over $22,000 building the system and, to be honest, there were no veils lifted, nor was there an increase in danceability. It was just a very nice sounding stereo. I went home and felt really happy with my stuff (save the Oppo) which gives me almost everything he had for 1/25th the cost.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

Now I remember, the amps were Marsh Sound Design.

F1nut · August 2008

I went home and felt really happy with my stuff (save the Oppo) which gives me almost everything he had for 1/25th the cost.

Come on over sometime, I'll change your mind.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

F1nut wrote: »

Come on over sometime, I'll change your mind.

If I like it that much, I'm staying.

F1nut · August 2008

RutgersFTW wrote: »

If I like it that much, I'm staying.

LOL......I'll warn you ahead of time, I'm a grumpy sob.

I never thanked you for your review, so thanks.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

F1nut wrote: »

I never thanked you for your review, so thanks.

Mars Hotel? Grumpy? Does not compute. And you're welcome.

Shicks18 · August 2008

F1Nut, what universal player would you recommend for <$200. It can be used, refurb, new.

Rutgers did you end up buying the Nad preamp or traded for it?

Ron Temple · August 2008

I think you got a lemon. I'm not saying the Oppo is audio nirvana, but mine's not bad. Much better than my Sony BD player, that I would describe much as you did the Oppo. Upconversion to 1080P on my DLP is superior to the Sony as well. I do use decent (not expensive) cables.

Nice write up (or not so nice

). Good luck with the new player.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

Ron Temple wrote: »

I think you got a lemon. I'm not saying the Oppo is audio nirvana, but mine's not bad. Much better than my Sony BD player, that I would describe much as you did the Oppo. Upconversion to 1080P on my DLP is superior to the Sony as well. I do use decent (not expensive) cables.

Nice write up (or not so nice ). Good luck with the new player.

I keep wondering about that, but I don't see how. It *works* fine save for the disc tray gremlin, which Oppo told me was normal. I tried it using all four connection types (all output audio) into three different budget receivers (Panasonic SA-XR57, Onkyo 605, and H/K 247) as well as an integrated (NAD C325BEE) which were all (save the NAD) blamed for the player's harshness. I felt bad returning the first two receivers even though I wasn't happy with them, and I'm trying to let go of the Harman.

Shicks - I had (well, "had" is relative) to buy the NAD because I pulled out an RCA connector by accident while disconnecting my Harman/Kardon and panicked. I e-mailed Harman, who dutifully e-mailed me a return label 3 days later (after I ordered the NAD from Spearit - AWESOME service btw) but followed it a few hours later with "did you try clipping it back in?" Oops.

So I still have it but am no longer looking for a trade, just a sale. $200 obo with iPod dock and whatever HT cables you want (HDMI, component, coax digital, optical digital, mostly Monoprice Premium with a smattering of Monster) for local p/u or meet-up. Shipping is too costly to be worthwhile for me, plus fraught with risks. marker set up an awesome trade for me but I blew it by assuming the worst when it was a simple pop-in clip. All the same, I'm really happy with my integrated, so I guess it worked out. My noise floor is much lower than it was running the 247 and a NAD C270, even if I have less power at hand.

mightymouse · August 2008

Nowadays whenever I see a lot of hoopla over something that is new to the scene, that is so revolutionary that it will completely change your perception of the universe, etc. kind of blah blah blah, my spam radar just turns itself on way high, and I just completely ignore that particular product. Someone somewhere out there is actively promoting/hyping that product on the net.

nikolas812 · August 2008

Ron Temple wrote: »

I think you got a lemon. I'm not saying the Oppo is audio nirvana, but mine's not bad. Much better than my Sony BD player, that I would describe much as you did the Oppo. Upconversion to 1080P on my DLP is superior to the Sony as well. I do use decent (not expensive) cables.

Nice write up (or not so nice ). Good luck with the new player.

+1

I liked mine very well and will own another one for up converting video only. The video up converted to 1080i on my cheap Westinghouse LCD was amazing. I have had blu ray and HD players and neither of them were much better than the Oppo.

That said the Oppo was OK in my 2 channel rig also. But not stellar by any means. I didn't know how bad the Oppo was until I got my Jolida CDP. Which blew it completely out of the water. But with that said, I still don't think it was as bad as you were describing and I believed it to be on par with the price.

I used to think it was a giant killer.:rolleyes: But after I got a little more experience with other units. I eventually realized it wasn't. It was just a decent player for the price IMO.

Nick

RutgersFTW · August 2008

I sold my Oppo (yay for good resale value!) and decided that rather than pocketing the $100 difference between it and my charming Sony changer I should put it toward a transport for my 7 (count 'em!) DVD-Audio discs. Having been burned by a universal player, I snagged a new in box Technics DVD-A10 for $99 shipped from BPAV.com. Impressions and comparisons to follow.

Serendipity · August 2008

Congrats on the upgrade. I might try the Sony changer out for myself in a dorm room system.

Danny Tse · August 2008

appadv wrote: »

I might try the Sony changer out for myself in a dorm room system.

I got the 595 when it first came out at its MSRP of $150.00. Even at its MSRP, it's a great deal. Of course, you'll have to put up with no direct access to tracks on remote, slow disc recognition time, slow disc layer changes, no headphone jack, etc. Still, the 595 is probably the best sounding SACD player under $150.00.

cstpeter · August 2008

Great review. I have the 595 in a secondary system and have been very happy with it. Fantastic player for the money.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

The 595 continues to charm me. I loaded it up with 5 different discs this morning, popped on my headphones, and let it spin. Here are my listening notes:

Blur's The Great Escape:
Holy crap, that synthesizer on opener "Stereotypes" cuts through everything, with no harshness or break-up. Foot tapping? Check. This album seems more propulsive than I remember. The bass line on "Country House" seems a little loose, and a little pronounced. Still, very listenable. The strings on "The Universal" are haunting... I'm getting emotional.

Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks (Hybrid SACD)
I think the SACD layer sounds slightly more open/airy, but I'm hard pressed to fault the regular layer, either. Dylan's voice is actually a bit reverb-ey via SACD. I'll have to get used to this, I suppose. "Shelter" made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up in the "'twas in another lifetime/full of toil and blood/blackness was a virtue/the road was full of mud," via SACD and CD, so the player passes.

The Band, The Band (Brown Album)
Again, the bass is a little more forward and boomy than it should be on "King Harvest," but the presentation is so dynamic and listenable it's hard to stay mad. Same for "Cripple Creek," and here the vocals have a very slight edge to them I hadn't noticed before. This is one of my favorite albums, so this is a little annoying. Whether the 595 is revealing something or just distorting, I don't know. But I don't like it.

. All the same, miles better than the Oppo.

Queens of the Stone Age, Era Vulgaris
I've only listened to this album a few times, but this is the first time it grabbed me like this. If there was one disc that sounded like a million bucks, it was this.

I'm getting bored, so the O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack also sounded great.

All in all, the best $57 I've ever spent on my stereo.

_________________________

but then... A CHALLENGER APPEARS

The Technics DVD-A10, on the other hand, has forced me to **** bricks.

Holy mother of God. This is a sweet sounding CDP. Smmmooooooottttthhhh sound.

I relistened to the Brown Album, specifically "Cripple Creek" and "King Harvest." Gone was the vocal harshness, and the bass was restrained and accurate. In fact, it might be a bit reticent. This player doesn't seem to like to rock out like the Sony, but on the other hand Levon Helm sounds like he's in my brain telling me to cry, so I'll take it.

So... for $57, the Sony CDP-CE595 is a fantastic value, and the surprisingly rich catalog of SACDs available if one looks means I'll be ordering a bunch to really get to know this player. It's CD performance is nothing to sneeze at either, and it loves to get loud and rowdy with no harshness, though it might not be the last word in restraint.

HOWEVER, for $99 shipped (!!!) from Best Price Audio Video, the Technics DVD-A10 from all the way back in June of 2000 just blew my mind. Why was this thing sitting in its box unused? It still had coupons for a $150 rebate and $75 of free DVD-Audio discs, though they both, unfortunately, expired in February of 2001. I don't have any DVD-Audio discs lying around to see its capabilities therein, but it makes regular CDs sound sweet, detailed, airy, all that good ****. My only hope is that, should she not live forever, the similarly hulking Denons and Pioneers of the world sound as nice.

RutgersFTW · August 2008

I also want to clarify that comparing a $149 list player to a (at one time) $1195 list player is completely unfair. In this setting, the Sony clearly wins for value and performance. Also:

-The changer mechanism is very smooth.
-The remote is nicely sized, and the lack of direct track buttons doesn't bother me though I can see how it could bother other people.
-The display is highly legible, and the unit exudes class that belies its price. My wife thought it looked great and loves having a changer again.

Budget Hi-Fi for the Broke College Guy - Vol. 1 (Oppo DV-980H v. Sony SCD-CD595)

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