HK 7300 review and HK AVRx35 questions
jawhog
Posts: 444
Has anyone ever had a chance to critically compare the sound of various HK receiver preamp sections (ie 235 versus 635)?
I recently acquired an HK AVR 7300 and put it through its paces comparing it to some other gear. Im trying to achieve that optimal blend of good stereo plus the ability to do home theater as a secondary priority. I tested the following gear:
HK AVR 7300
Rotel RTC-850 (recently acquired here)
Yamaha RX-V795a (my old standby)
Adcom GFA-545 II
All comparisons were made using RTi10s and no subwoofer.
Here were my thoughts:
Yamaha: Neither the preamp or amp section of the Yamaha could keep up with any of the other gear. This was my main receiver amp for the majority of the last 9 years. Ive critically evaluated it a few times before, but always with a subwoofer. Last year when I had a Rotel RB-970 for an amp, I could really hear the difference running the speakers large, but with a sub, any improvement on stereo using the separate amp was much less apparent. Compared to the other gear listed above it sounds okay, but thats it. I always envisioned adding an amp based on the one famous review of this piece that says something like used as a pre/pro I could not hear that the Yamaha was doing anything detrimental to the sound. Well I can. Too bad, I thought someday I would be happy just running this with a stereo amp, but stereo sound suffered due to the preamp, and the center channel using the yamahas amp section now sounds horrific to me.
Rotel turned out to be a very nice preamp. Very clear and but a little less full sounding than the HK preamp section. I wanted to comtemplate just going 2.0 on this rig, but now Im more interested in finding an AV receiver that can power the rears.
Adcom Certainly an improvement over the Yamaha amp section. Matched nicely with both the rotel and HK preamps. Sounded very different than the HK amp section. It made me conclude that the HK flavor is more due to the amp section than the preamp section. The mids are more pronounced on the adcom than the HK amps. Bass is also leaner, but I thought I little less muddy than the HK as a result. Highs sounded about the same to me. (Which surprised me from all the things I read about how Adcom butchers the highs). Finally, I dont know exactly how to explain it, but it almost sounded like during the music there was a hiss or extra noise in the background though, whereas the HK was just clean and clear through and through.
Finally, the HK was very impressive. It has outstanding dynamics and produced the greatest movie sound Ive ever achieved at home (also using a csi5). But for music, Im not sure Im in love with the sound. For jazz or classical, it really sounded great. But when it came to rock, the adcom just had a more present or vibrant sound. I kept thinking that every rock song on the HK sounded as if it was being played inside a giant room lined with black velvet. Im going to give it some time though. Its so different I dont want to make a rash decision. What Im not so enthralled about is the size of this beast. Its big.
Which brings me to why I wrote all this. Will the preamp section of the 635, 435, 335 or 235 sound about the same? Because thats the part of the HK I really liked. Then I can ditch the 7300 and picking up a lesser HK and a 3-channel amp. Maybe an acurus or even the 5-ch emotiva?
Thoughts or comments?
I recently acquired an HK AVR 7300 and put it through its paces comparing it to some other gear. Im trying to achieve that optimal blend of good stereo plus the ability to do home theater as a secondary priority. I tested the following gear:
HK AVR 7300
Rotel RTC-850 (recently acquired here)
Yamaha RX-V795a (my old standby)
Adcom GFA-545 II
All comparisons were made using RTi10s and no subwoofer.
Here were my thoughts:
Yamaha: Neither the preamp or amp section of the Yamaha could keep up with any of the other gear. This was my main receiver amp for the majority of the last 9 years. Ive critically evaluated it a few times before, but always with a subwoofer. Last year when I had a Rotel RB-970 for an amp, I could really hear the difference running the speakers large, but with a sub, any improvement on stereo using the separate amp was much less apparent. Compared to the other gear listed above it sounds okay, but thats it. I always envisioned adding an amp based on the one famous review of this piece that says something like used as a pre/pro I could not hear that the Yamaha was doing anything detrimental to the sound. Well I can. Too bad, I thought someday I would be happy just running this with a stereo amp, but stereo sound suffered due to the preamp, and the center channel using the yamahas amp section now sounds horrific to me.
Rotel turned out to be a very nice preamp. Very clear and but a little less full sounding than the HK preamp section. I wanted to comtemplate just going 2.0 on this rig, but now Im more interested in finding an AV receiver that can power the rears.
Adcom Certainly an improvement over the Yamaha amp section. Matched nicely with both the rotel and HK preamps. Sounded very different than the HK amp section. It made me conclude that the HK flavor is more due to the amp section than the preamp section. The mids are more pronounced on the adcom than the HK amps. Bass is also leaner, but I thought I little less muddy than the HK as a result. Highs sounded about the same to me. (Which surprised me from all the things I read about how Adcom butchers the highs). Finally, I dont know exactly how to explain it, but it almost sounded like during the music there was a hiss or extra noise in the background though, whereas the HK was just clean and clear through and through.
Finally, the HK was very impressive. It has outstanding dynamics and produced the greatest movie sound Ive ever achieved at home (also using a csi5). But for music, Im not sure Im in love with the sound. For jazz or classical, it really sounded great. But when it came to rock, the adcom just had a more present or vibrant sound. I kept thinking that every rock song on the HK sounded as if it was being played inside a giant room lined with black velvet. Im going to give it some time though. Its so different I dont want to make a rash decision. What Im not so enthralled about is the size of this beast. Its big.
Which brings me to why I wrote all this. Will the preamp section of the 635, 435, 335 or 235 sound about the same? Because thats the part of the HK I really liked. Then I can ditch the 7300 and picking up a lesser HK and a 3-channel amp. Maybe an acurus or even the 5-ch emotiva?
Thoughts or comments?
Post edited by jawhog on
Comments
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FWIW, when I decide to get rid of my 7300, I plan to buy the lowest model H/K with pre-outs.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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My vote is to go separates using a dedicated tube preamp and a SS amp to drive the Rti10's. I have an HK635 and used it to drive my Rti10's and found an improvement when I got a seperate amp, then another improvement when I took the HK out of the whole loop with a tube preamp. I have a combined HT/music rig and only use my HK for HT now. Tubes smoothed out the highs and removed the clinical tone or etchiness. I still get lots of detailed highs and extended bass.
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I too found the big H/K to be great for movies, but my 2 channel really came alive once I went to a tube preamp with my Stratos amp.HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
4 months later I have to say I've learned to really love the AVR 7300. It's just a beast that sounds great. It might be big, but when you have one piece that can do it all, it saves space in the end.
These things are going for well under $500 now. I can't believe it, this piece isn't mentioned all that often, but there's some serious value there if you have the space for it. -
I like HK too (I run a 525 - when its running), but consider two things as to why the 7300 isn't mentioned all that often:
1) Even at $500 there is an opportunity cost. That would be $500 that could be applied to a seperate amp such as a Sunfire, Emotiva, etc.
2) Maybe the biggest concern is reliability. Yes the receiver is powerful and sounds great, but if it doesn't work, whats the use? I'll go on record to say that I might have bought my last receiver with the HK I use (intermitently).
Just my opinion....Do you hear that buzzing noise?
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Weighing 55lbs, the 7300 is a beast!
Spec review on the 7300 from S&V:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf
Full review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/699/harman-kardon-avr-7300-digital-surround-receiver.htmlReceiver: harmankardon AVR235
Mains: polk R30
Center: polk CSi3
Rear Surrounds: polk R20
Subwoofer: polk PSW404
DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29 -
I have its older brother, 7200. Great receiver, one of the rare ones that will drive LSi's with ease.
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I had an AVR-235, and my findings were similar to your's. Great cheap pre, and very good as an AVR for modest speakers.
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
i still have my 7300. i'm now using it for a preamp in my two-channel. before i got my adcom 5802 i was running my sda 1.2tl's off the 7300 and it sounded really good even at higher volumes. it only lacked a little bass. but that makes sense being the sda's can take 1000wpc.
when it was in my ht rig, it only got replaced because i wanted to get the newest highdef audio formats. neither my hd dvd nor blu-ray players have analog outs so i needed hdmi action.
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
So how does $187 for a 9/10 condition HK 7300 sound? (No-I'm not sellin one)____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
$187 sounds like murder. i great price for certain.
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
$187 sounds like murder. i great price for certain.
I won an auction for one. But I'm still waiting to see if I'll ever see it. Very sparse communication-I'm thinking the guy didn't expect it to sell so low.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
i wonder if he's willing to take a hit on feedback. and if so, hopefully he'll still give you your money back. was that on the bay or on the gon?
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
$187 sounds like murder. i great price for certain.
WOW! It's certainly a steal! There is a avr 8000 on ebay at 510$ after 31 bids and 2 days left!!! -
i wonder if he's willing to take a hit on feedback. and if so, hopefully he'll still give you your money back. was that on the bay or on the gon?
'Gon. I already filed a dispute-we'll see. We're at 25 days now since the auction - 4 days since duspute was filed. Cash is already in his account.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?homeproc&1222823665
Oops my bad, actually $182.50____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
Was it a USPS money order? I only send those to people I don't know. Something about Federal Fraud. I never had to go that far, but a few Polkies recommended that route. I noticed he is in Ft Lauderdale. I wish I was there still!
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
ooh, money order or personal check. are you oransky? because he/she/it left negative feedback already. 25 days? no communication at all or is seller giving you the run around? if no communication at all, i'd say you got taken. at least if no one can make this right for you, it's only $182 vs much much more. sure it's alot, but could have been worse. good luck to you brotha.
ben, i wish you were still there as well. on another forum someone's $2500 rims/tires deal went sour. yours truely showed up on the dude's doorstep and within a day the money was returned. very nice.;):D
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
Parachoute wrote: »WOW! It's certainly a steal! There is a avr 8000 on ebay at 510$ after 31 bids and 2 days left!!!
holy hell. i never even heard of an 8000. sure enough it exists.
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
The 8000 was basically a 7200 with only 5 amp channels, known for the best Logic 7 sound next to Lexicon.
Not worth over $500, IMO with lesser DPL modes etc. I still use my 7200 daily and will until the HD formats become commonplace.HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
ben, i wish you were still there as well. on another forum someone's $2500 rims/tires deal went sour. yours truely showed up on the dude's doorstep and within a day the money was returned. very nice.;):D
Nothing like a fairly big serious looking dude with a tude on your doorstep to persuade someone they might just be better off making it right. No yelling just some deep looks. Ask a few questions about their car, pets... They usually wise up;) I'm not shy about missions like that. I kinda enjoy them:) People have a lot more balls via the internet.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Ask a few questions about their car, pets...
somehow i like the way you phrased that.:)
and back to the h/k 7300, i sorta wished i had held off a bit for the new sound formats to get a better foot-hold in the market. i must say my h/k 7300 powered my rti's far warmer and richer than my onkyo 805. my onkyo is bright, bright, BRIGHT!
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
I upgraded to an Outlaw 990 Pre for the balanced outputs, up-sampling, and phono input. The outlaw had slightly more punch, and a hair more voltage on the outs, but I was a little disappointed thinking the Outlaw would be a big step up. The HK had a better tuner too. I will go the HK route again when the time comes.
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
yeah, well myself, i went with the onkyo for the feature set it has. buncha bells 'n whistles. sure wish h/k would have stepped up to the plate much sooner. hell, do they even have anything comperable now, a year and a half later?
POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
ONKYO TX-SR805
CENTER: CSI5
MAINS: RTI8'S
SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
XBOX 360WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd
http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
HK will never try to compete watt for watt. There specs are there own. I think the 254 features might compete with the 706/6 and the 354 with the 805/6.
Combo rig:
Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
PB13Ultra RO
BW Silvers
Oppo BDP-83SE
