Just bought the pioneer vsx-9120 ! True HD content

polkseller
polkseller Posts: 184
edited April 2008 in Electronics
Installation was fast like 5 min.

First 10-15 minutes of music was not good at all ! Right channel was lower than the left for a few minutes.. ??:confused: maybe it sound like that when new.. sound like low current 2 watts amplifier to me... but still breaking it.

My yamaha 5960 was better on everything..

30 minutes after, the bass, mid and highs were better, but still not better than the sound of the yamaha in stereo pure direct mode. The volume knob is also highter than the yamaha for the same output.. bizarre like 8 db more.

I tried a Dave Matthews blu-ray with true HD track without problem on my PS3. The only thing is that I did not get the true HD logo on the receiver's screen.

WOW, amazing sound, so pure. The pioneer is really shining here, way better than the yamaha on this DVD. And also the sound was this time more powerful than my yamaha for the same DB reading.

The 9120 returned in the box after, I will move to my new house friday and will get to you asap with my new system also.

If you get any ideas on how to show true Hd on the screen with this receiver let me know.
Post edited by polkseller on
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  • acsubie
    acsubie Posts: 773
    edited March 2008
    the receiver will not show True HD on its display until sony had a firmware update that allows HD over bitstream..your best bet is setting the PS3 to linear PCM and letting the receiver to decode to lossless which is displayed on the receiver as Multichannel, at least it is on my receiver

    the PS3 firmware is coming though...just been on hold!!!
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  • millerman 3732
    millerman 3732 Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2008
    what BD player are you using?

    EDIT, I see now where you are using a PS3, no bitstream for you, everything must be decoded in the PS3 and passed as PCM.
    Casey
    H/T: Epson 6500ub
    Sony UBP-X800
    Toshiba HD-XA2 (HD-DVD, CD)
    Onkyo 805 (pre-amp)
    Outlaw 7125
    Polk RTi 10 (bi-amped)
    Polk CSi5 (bi-amped)
    Polk RTi6
    SVS PB 12 plus/2
    Velodyne SMS-1

    TV Rig: Samsung 50'' 4k display
    Polk Signa-1 Surround bar
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  • millerman 3732
    millerman 3732 Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2008
    acsubie wrote: »
    the PS3 firmware is coming though...just been on hold!!!

    I don't think the PS3 is capable of bitsteaming any of the new formats, even with an update.
    Casey
    H/T: Epson 6500ub
    Sony UBP-X800
    Toshiba HD-XA2 (HD-DVD, CD)
    Onkyo 805 (pre-amp)
    Outlaw 7125
    Polk RTi 10 (bi-amped)
    Polk CSi5 (bi-amped)
    Polk RTi6
    SVS PB 12 plus/2
    Velodyne SMS-1

    TV Rig: Samsung 50'' 4k display
    Polk Signa-1 Surround bar
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited March 2008
    ok so bitstreaming will give true HD logo on the screen ?

    using PS3 on pcm does work for True-Hd tracks, but is the Bitstreaming over HDMI is better on other models like the panasonic bd-30 or sony s-500 ?

    thanks
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  • millerman 3732
    millerman 3732 Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2008
    polkseller wrote: »
    ok so bitstreaming will give true HD logo on the screen ?

    using PS3 on pcm does work for True-Hd tracks, but is the Bitstreaming over HDMI is better on other models like the panasonic bd-30 or sony s-500 ?

    thanks

    Yes you will need a bit streaming player like the panny or the new sony to get the TrueHD on your receiver to light up.

    Whether or not its better to bitstream the audio and let the AVR do the decoding instead of the player itself, well thats still up for debate.
    Casey
    H/T: Epson 6500ub
    Sony UBP-X800
    Toshiba HD-XA2 (HD-DVD, CD)
    Onkyo 805 (pre-amp)
    Outlaw 7125
    Polk RTi 10 (bi-amped)
    Polk CSi5 (bi-amped)
    Polk RTi6
    SVS PB 12 plus/2
    Velodyne SMS-1

    TV Rig: Samsung 50'' 4k display
    Polk Signa-1 Surround bar
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited March 2008
    I really think the Sony ps3 is not good at decoding bitstream to pcm. Intercoding one to another add jitter and audible distortion on my system on some configuration.
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  • dipiazza
    dipiazza Posts: 363
    edited March 2008
    do you have a link to the vsx-9120? I cant seem to find it on the pioneer website. thanks.
    Terps Swimming!
    HT Setup
    TV: Vizio VX32L
    Reciever: Pioneer VSX-D914
    HD-DVD Player: Toshiba HD-A2
    Fronts: Polk R50s
    Surounds: Polk R30s
    Center: Polk R20's
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39PCi

    2CH Setup
    Integrated: Onix SP3 Tube
    CD Player: Sony CDP-CX355
    Speakers: Onix Strata Mini in PR Finish
    Signal Cable: Classic Speaker, Analog 1 IC

    Headphones
    Grado SR 60, Bang & Olufsen A8, Shure e3

    Other Stuff in Use
    Onix xls, Dual Onix x-subs, Onix Ref .5, Dahlquist M903, Teac A-1D, Marantz 1060
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited March 2008
    no sorry the 9120 is a top secret model :D

    Honestly, this amp must be too good to show on the pioneer website with its low asking price and identical to Elite 91 wich is more expensive.
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  • dipiazza
    dipiazza Posts: 363
    edited March 2008
    polkseller wrote: »
    no sorry the 9120 is a top secret model :D

    Honestly, this amp must be too good to show on the pioneer website with its low asking price and identical to Elite 91 wich is more expensive.


    oh reallllyyy ...... ............
    Terps Swimming!
    HT Setup
    TV: Vizio VX32L
    Reciever: Pioneer VSX-D914
    HD-DVD Player: Toshiba HD-A2
    Fronts: Polk R50s
    Surounds: Polk R30s
    Center: Polk R20's
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39PCi

    2CH Setup
    Integrated: Onix SP3 Tube
    CD Player: Sony CDP-CX355
    Speakers: Onix Strata Mini in PR Finish
    Signal Cable: Classic Speaker, Analog 1 IC

    Headphones
    Grado SR 60, Bang & Olufsen A8, Shure e3

    Other Stuff in Use
    Onix xls, Dual Onix x-subs, Onix Ref .5, Dahlquist M903, Teac A-1D, Marantz 1060
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited March 2008
    millerman 3732 wrote: »
    I don't think the PS3 is capable of bitsteaming any of the new formats, even with an update.

    Yes, I believe the ps3 is HARDWARE limited. Unless they release a model with a new 1.3 chip, you won't be able to get the ps3 to bitstream.
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited March 2008
    polkseller wrote: »
    I really think the Sony ps3 is not good at decoding bitstream to pcm. Intercoding one to another add jitter and audible distortion on my system on some configuration.

    Your surround processor must also decode the bitstream to pcm internally if you hook it up to a bitstream player. I'm not sure what jitter is on your system, but any big changes in distortion levels could be introduced by not having your pcm set up and calibrated properly as an input on your processor. So you may be getting a big boost to the dynamic range in the bass, for instance, and it may sound like distortion unless you properly balance the sub level.

    I'd look at more obvious areas of adjustment in a new set-up before you give up on the pcm from the ps3.
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited March 2008
    The distortion i'm talking about is when used in PCM with my optical out on my yamaha 5960. I get microphone voice distortion of Dave matthew ( grave digger track and many others). Like compressed dynamic range occuring.

    I did not noticed that on the Pioneer with either Bitstream or PCM true HD soundtrack. The microphone voice track is more balanced, but i still think the PS3 is not the best sounding unit. I'll try the Panasonic bd-30 of my friend and let you know.

    Do you have the same problem ?



    thanks
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited March 2008
    Well, for one thing, you can't get TrueHD multichannel PCM over optical. Optical will only deliver vanilla multichannel DD and DTS over optical. I know there is some setting for two channel. But who knows what it's doing to the signal to get it over optical. I use HDMI and multichannel TrueHD PCM sounds great. Even CDs seem to get a nice boost over HDMI.

    So your problem would seem to be trying to fit lossless audio over an optical connection if you're even listening to a downsampled lossless track in the first place.
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited April 2008
    Update

    I got a Energy esw V10 sub to try.

    Some problems with the pioneer.

    In PCM on truHD tracks, I need to bump the sub 10db in the amp menu because the volume knob on the sub dont go far enought.

    The sound of the pioneer using HDMI on the PS3 in PCM with regular dolby track is very bad. Way too agressive. The highs are not correct and also the bass is too low. The bitstream setting gives perfect results.

    Engaging the sub cross over change the quality of the sound, yes midrange is affected.

    In my room( 14x14), the sub addition is nice for shaking **** on some scene, but the RTI6 are amazing without a sub ! Sometime I was wondering if the sub was ON and it was OFF!! Its that good !

    I'm not sure if I will keep the pioneer, I know its a good amp and that in REAL bitstream of TruHD with a blu-ray that does it it might be ok but the crossover seem cheap inside, and also the bass out is weak.

    I listened to Harman Kardon before and what I remember is that I had better sound than that, but it was in another room. I like the pioneer feature but there's too many sound options.
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited April 2008
    I have covered why you need to bump the bass 10 db here:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=839500&postcount=15

    The problem lies on the receiver/pre side, not with the ps3. What you need on your receiver/pre is a setting that allows you to bump only the PCM LFE 10 db. If you bump the sub instead, than you are also bumping all the redirected bass if you have some speakers set to small. This will end up having all the redirected bass 10 db too hot instead of just the .1 LFE channel and you will think that the highs have diminished or that the bass is too high.
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  • polkseller
    polkseller Posts: 184
    edited April 2008
    speaker is set to large + sub

    was giving the best result crossed at 50hz.

    Adjusting the sub manually 10db more was not difficult at all in the pioneer menu.

    Resetting back to normal is easy too when listening to other audio content.

    The problem is that the crossover inside the pioneer is not good quality. HK quadruple crossover design gives better results and highter output to sub out.

    The pioneer crossover slope changes the midrange sound and affect the dynamic of the sound. Best is to not use it and use floorstander. It was really difficult to match a sub with 18db / octave crossover slope to the pioneer, in fact I was not able to find the proper setting.
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