Wheres the bass?

VR3
VR3 Posts: 25,738
I have noticed on this new PE to get bass, NE at all really I have to put the bass on +5. Even then I have to turn on this Midnight/Loudness to get even close to the Bass I had on the yamaha. Is this normal? Or is there something I am doing wrong? Anybody know?
- Not Tom

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
Post edited by VR3 on

Comments

  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited March 2003
    'put the bass on +5'

    What exactly do you mean by this? The bass tone adjustment, or the subwoofer/lfe pre-out level?

    How is your sub connected? Are there differences in the pre-out voltage between the PE and the Yam?

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • pjdami
    pjdami Posts: 1,894
    edited March 2003
    Mx,

    Do you have a phase switch you can toggle on the back of your sub? Try this too. When you hook up different speakers or receivers the phase might change.

    Like Russman said, my Yammer has a 4.0 V preout for the sub (not sure what yours may have). Many receivers have just a 1.0 V LFE preout. Might need to adjust your gain on the plate amp and turn the receiver bass output back to 0.

    P.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 25,738
    edited March 2003
    Well I found that music was still pretty good at +5 (LFE). THe subwoofer dosn't distort then. If I turn the subwoofer up it starts to distort. I dont play the loudness preset with music I seem to get plenty of Bass response with most music. Music is good, I just needed to mess around with it.

    Nadams - Nope, no phase switch, this old m&k dont have one.

    Well right now its plenty of enough bass for my room, I will help the bass out when I get the SVS.
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited March 2003
    You using a Y connector? If not, try it. You'll get about an extra 3db out of it.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 25,738
    edited March 2003
    y splitter? Like......Running L&R inputs on the sub together to the subout on the receiver?
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited March 2003
    i stoll all the bass. it is in m stryke force. what sub do you have? if it is wimpy then there is your problem.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 25,738
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by goingganzo
    i stoll all the bass. it is in m stryke force. what sub do you have? if it is wimpy then there is your problem.

    Its the M&K MX90 (M&K MX125) (2) 12 inch drivers - hits down to 10hz
    I had plenty of bass with the Yammer, it all went DOWN hill with this PE
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    y splitter? Like......Running L&R inputs on the sub together to the subout on the receiver?

    Yes.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited March 2003
    10Hz, 18-24db down MAYBE.....

    Pffffftttt
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,431
    edited March 2003
    I lost a lot of volume when I got my Onkyo, but I got much better bass as a result. I wiil be keeping my eye on this one.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 25,738
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    10Hz, 18-24db down MAYBE.....

    Pffffftttt

    According to M&K it should roll off between 10hz and 20hz, they give no specific response. Im too lazy to buy a meter. They have two seperate drivers, the bottum firing drive handles the LOW low notes, the forward firing driver handles 30hz and up. When I lost my forward firing dirver for a week or so I couldnt hear a da** thing but I felt alot, my bed would be jumpin for no apparent reason during songs. It was effin awesome!

    Russ I guess you don't think M&K makes a good product, possibly you havnt even heard the MX-125 or its older model MX-90. Until you do you have no talk concerning what it can or can not do.
    Quotes from M&K's Website -
    "The MX-125 Mk II's Deep Bass design produces significant bass to frequencies as low as 10 Hz. Conventional subwoofers have extremely sharp rolloffs around 30 or 40 Hz (especially subs with passive radiators or vented cabinets, which have a minimum 24 dB/octave rolloff). The MX-125 Mk II's deep bass to below 20 Hz frequencies that we feel but can't hear gives it a lifelike power and authority other subwoofers cannot match."
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited March 2003
    could it be your bass mangement or maybe you have sothing set to large. or the crosover or you installed the replace mend driver out of phase. or maybe the preamp out just sucks or is defective.
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2003
    Your problem may lie in either your bass management circuitry or an activated bass compression circuit you have not yet discovered how to disable. I suggest reading the owner's manual - twice - to see how this AVR deals with both analog and digital bass management and dynamic range compression circuits.

    Or maybe Stryke Force really DID steal what little bass your M&K was producing.

    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news_subcompare.htm

    Separate hype from reality, Sid. Russ was dead-on with his assessment.

    The M&K 125 MK II - at the BOTTOM of the bucket for both average overall output (25-63 Hz) AND for output specifically at 25 Hz.

    This poor excuse for a sub can barely break 95 dB at 25 Hz in a 2100 ft3 room. Hardly the subsonic powerhouse M&K claims it is. Don't believe everything you read - some manufacturers love to make inflated claims they cannot back up and then run from opportunities for independent testing.

    The SVS 20-39 CS with the ORIGINAL single 12" driver crushed the M&K by a staggering 15 dB at 25 Hz.

    For current 20-39 CS performance add 3 dB for the Improved Standard Driver, making it an 18 dB slaughter. All for a lowly $429 (add your own amp).

    Add 8 dB for a 20-39 CS Plus = 23 dB advantage.

    Add 10 dB for a 20-39 CS Ultra = 25 dB advantage.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • MxStYlEpOlKmAn
    MxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited March 2003
    Yes I am well aware of that chart as I have seen it before. M&K isnt exactly the loudest subwoofer on earth. Do you not think I don't know that. Lets take away SVS's second subwoofer to make it a top of the line, and that last difference won't be so different. It might be one DB louder than the second SVS model down. I personally think if they compare two subs, then all subwoofers they compare should be two. SVS makes a good subwoofer, im not going to argue as I find no point to. I plan on buying a SVS subwoofer. I plan on getting it this summer, I will give you my 2 cents on their subwoofers then.
    By the way, comparing a M&K to a SVS is like what yall call apple and oranges. The M&K is not ported, the SVS however is very much ported...what? 3 ports? The SPL output will be much larger with the SVS. TWO DIFFERENT DESIGNS. But I believe you can compare any speaker design because it makes a sound. I am arguing for the sake of argue. Maybe I pointed out how stupid the apples and oranges thing was. But I think its funny how all the subwoofers on that chart are ported, yet the M&K isnt. Does it all come into play. Dont come back with me specs, layouts, designs and mess. I understand each sub, what it can do and why. I dont need a lecture. When you pay 1000 less for a subwoofer you don't complain much. The whole problem was the receiver, not my subwoofer. Until now it has provided more than enough bass for me and the neighborhood. I have fixed the bass problem with my new receiver now too, I had the dynamic range on max, when I turned the receiver up the compression level was to high. That is my final word on the subject, if you want to argue wait till I buy an SVS. I will go from there. Personally I plan for the SVS to smash the M&K in overall output. But truly, in all laughs I plan the M&K to go MUCH lower than the SVS. Whether it plays 100 db at 10 hz or 10db. It plays below 20 hz, I have yet to hear the subwoofer roll off or distort on low notes. It has surpassed all subwoofer frequencies tests with flying colors. I dont need a chart of DB levels that is only testing down to 25 hz to tell me what my subwoofer can or can not do. I have heard/felt it do it all.
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited March 2003
    MX did you grow up or what? no more LOL, no more misspelled words. whats up guy? LOL :lol:
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2003
    Sid - good response. I notice you are working hard lately to come off as a more intelligent and mature poster and your efforts are showing - bravo.

    Anyway, if you read my post carefully, you will note the numbers I quoted WERE for the SINGLE SVS subwoofer. And I specifically referred to the word "single" to make sure you got my point.

    And the numbers I quoted for the ISD, the Plus, and the Ultra were also for a single subwoofer.

    Why should all the other sub makers in the line-up apologize for using a vented design? The push-pull design M&K uses is actually a good one and has distinct theoretical advantages over a vented design. Apparently in the case of the M&K 125 MKII, those theoretical advantages do not translate into a real world advantage.

    Also, please recognize the SPL numbers listed in the charts are limited to 10% THD. I am sure the M&K and the other subs can play louder - both overall and at 25 Hz - than the numbers in the charts. However, limiting output to 10% THD is the ONLY way to level the playing field and provide a meaningful comparison between subs.

    This test does not show the actual FR of the subs in question. It is quite possible the M&K is tuned quite deeply. Only a close mic FR sweep with an SPL meter can tell you for sure.

    Regardless, the fact of the matter is that the M&K cannot produce more than 95 dB at 25 Hz in a 2100 ft3 room before its THD reaches 10%. Regardless of alignment configuration, that is a piss poor performance for a $1,200 subwoofer.

    The ironic thing is M&K specifically claims its design helps eliminate harmonic distortion, and theoretically it should. But independent testing proves otherwise.

    So if you ever get an SVS or any other quality sub - you may find your M&K 90 still plays pretty darn loud in comparison, but you can be assured it will not play as cleanly at low frequencies.

    Playing clean and deep and loud is the hallmark of any great sub, and M&K apparently can't pull off the clean part very well - at least according to this independent test.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • MxStYlEpOlKmAn
    MxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    Sid - good response. I notice you are working hard lately to come off as a more intelligent and mature poster and your efforts are showing - bravo.

    Anyway, if you read my post carefully, you will note the numbers I quoted WERE for the SINGLE SVS subwoofer. And I specifically referred to the word "single" to make sure you got my point.

    And the numbers I quoted for the ISD, the Plus, and the Ultra were also for a single subwoofer.

    Why should all the other sub makers in the line-up apologize for using a vented design? The push-pull design M&K uses is actually a good one and has distinct theoretical advantages over a vented design. Apparently in the case of the M&K 125 MKII, those theoretical advantages do not translate into a real world advantage.

    Also, please recognize the SPL numbers listed in the charts are limited to 10% THD. I am sure the M&K and the other subs can play louder - both overall and at 25 Hz - than the numbers in the charts. However, limiting output to 10% THD is the ONLY way to level the playing field and provide a meaningful comparison between subs.

    This test does not show the actual FR of the subs in question. It is quite possible the M&K is tuned quite deeply. Only a close mic FR sweep with an SPL meter can tell you for sure.

    Regardless, the fact of the matter is that the M&K cannot produce more than 95 dB at 25 Hz in a 2100 ft3 room before its THD reaches 10%. Regardless of alignment configuration, that is a piss poor performance for a $1,200 subwoofer.

    The ironic thing is M&K specifically claims its design helps eliminate harmonic distortion, and theoretically it should. But independent testing proves otherwise.

    So if you ever get an SVS or any other quality sub - you may find your M&K 90 still plays pretty darn loud in comparison, but you can be assured it will not play as cleanly at low frequencies.

    Playing clean and deep and loud is the hallmark of any great sub, and M&K apparently can't pull off the clean part very well - at least according to this independent test.

    Doc

    Everything you said is true. The M&K driver is high compliance and on some low frequencies the driver flaps. It depends on how clean the source is. It does it more on somethings than others. I am not saying my M&K is awesome, heck I know they rip you off when you pay 1,300 for it. The MX-90 was 1,400 when my dad bought it. The driver cost 82.50. There isnt much more I have to say as of why. The bottum driver dosn't play loud neither, I would say if I used it as a forward firing driver I would loose well over 30 db of sound. This is what I have found. Other than that, I am looking forward to the SVS, if it is a good subwoofer the M&K will go on Ebay. Then I will purchase another SVS for stackables.
    Although in all respects I couldnt find myself getting rid of the M&K I had to work a long time to get that thing. (1 month in 100 degree weather!)
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 25,738
    edited March 2003
    You using a Y connector? If not, try it. You'll get about an extra 3db out of it.

    I bought a HD Y-Splitter today. I notice a little bit more volume, I also notice a little more THUMP to the bass. Thanks for the advice and I am glad I took it. Every subwoofer I buy from now on will have a y splitter connection with it.
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro