tube amp prices and names,

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Comments

  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    thats awesome!! I found the model it was AA-161 combo amp/pre.. Cool cool, so what do you guys think of the old heathkit gear??

    I found one on e-bay, different model but its 14 watts each, total 28 and a tube am/fm tuner.... cool looking stuff
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,848
    edited January 2003
    Heathkits are actually very good pieces of equipment from thier time. I have an old tube amp, well, my dad does, and I'm going to be using it in a lab here at work. It's part of the reason I went and grabbed those speakers from George. They will work perfectly!

    My dad also has a Heathkit clock. It's one of thier first digital LCD screen clock kits that he put together in like the late 70's. It's like 20 some odd years old or something and it has been keeping perfect time since my dad put it together.

    I wish you could still get Heathkit stuff. Check out the specs on some of it. Most are tube amps and they post impressive numbers for thier price. Now all Heathkit does is make professional training kits. Still very impressive and you can learn alot from them but not the same as building your own set of mono-block tube amps for your stereo pre-amp and running a set of ribbon speakers off of it!


    Oh and for the differences between a solid state and a tube amp, basically, with a tube amp, what you see is what you get. There is no voltage drop unless you change impedance and there is no wattage change in an operational range. If it's 20W per channel, it's 20W per channel, all the time. They also handle high imperdance loads well but aren't so great at low impedance loads. Most tube amps will be happily chugging along at 8 ohms but will play like a 4 ohm solid state amplifier.

    Tube amps have a much warmer sound than the solid state amps too. It's hard to explain unless you hear it. Tube amps are also a good way to heat a room in your house! ;)

    I have actually seen tube amps with tubes that will run hot enough to glow! That is cool!
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    The HeathKit musium is cool! I wish I could order one of their tube kits today. Wouldn't that be cool! I remember the days when I used to see some of them advertised. The prices were pretty good at the time too.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Madmaxx,

    what do you think of a 14 watt x 2 amp?? is that kinda low.. and what speakers could you run with this type of amp??
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    I'm really not a fan of the smaller ones. 14 watts isn't a lot of power and to me the great sound of the larger tubes disappear. Someone else may like it but personally I don't. From what I can tell most of the people who like the really low power amps like 8 watts or whatever like it because they are using the amp in triode mode which is different than the push-pull amps like I have. It is a different world than I am into.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Oh i see, so what size amp do you have?? what would be the next step then? heathkit has some 25 and 50 watt amps i think, or the dynaco dynakit70's seem nice.. alot more money though for me, oh well tubes are big money i guess
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,848
    edited January 2003
    The reason tubes are big money is because it is outdated technology. Nobody is making tubes except for a few niche manufacturers who support things like HAM radio and us audio junkies. The problem is, tubes are outdate but still aviable solution and as more people buy into them, the market will go back down. The bonus is, the tubes and fuses and other gear in these amps are being made with much higher precision than they were 30-40 years ago when tubes was pretty much all you could get and transitors were just picking up steam. Consequently, people are revisiting tubes and finding out that there is alot more potential there than they thought.

    Asfar as power goes. 14 watts on tubes is equivalent to much more on a transistor/solid state unit. 14 watts doesn't seem like alot by today's standards but for a tube amp, it's do pretty well.

    I remember seeing a guy with 7 foot tall ribbon speakers being powered by a 25Wx2 stereo tube amplifier and a seperate 100W monoblock tube amplifier being run through a pre-amp controller. It doesn't seem like much but that stereo could probably shake the house off it's foundation if he pushed it hard enough.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Ok then thanks,, seems like very mixed feelings over power output and such, some will say 8 watts is plenty with others saying 50 watts minimum at a very premium price i might add.. i wanted a value minded setup that sounded good also.. I want 2 small speakers on stands with a small tube amp and tuner and maybe a cd player... Thing is i don't want it to sound all distorted when i turn it up a bit.. also i see no way to incorporate a subwoofer in the 2 channel setup.. being a would plan to use small but nice bookshelf speakers i see not much bass response.. any suggestions for the tuber on a budget???
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    I just like the EL-34's, 6550's and KT-88's. I have tried one with EL-84's (about 12 w/per) and it didn't have the glorious sound I had been hearing with the others. On ebay I've seen many go for $400 or less. Just keep an eye out for awhile. You could try searching under "EL-34 tube amp" or similar. Another thing you may want to keep an eye out for is ones that say "Ultra linear" which just means a different type of feedback loop from the transformer is used. All the ones I have experience with are ultra linear. I wish we had a "real" tube guy here with about 50 years experience!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Thanks again, great info
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    One other thing,
    I wouldn't worry too much whether it was 25 watts or 50 watts for your application. Keep in mind an amp that uses say an EL-34 may be listed anywhere from 25 to 50 watts depending on the exact circuitry around the tube.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • weiserweiser Posts: 55
    edited January 2003
    I bought a Sonic Frontiers Anthem Amp 1 on eBay for $422 U.S..
    Unbelievable for an amp that would have cost almost $2700 CDN.
    with taxes new. I also received two complete sets of tubes. The original tubes and a set of Mullards.
    Be patient and watch eBay!
    JVC AV48WP30 Widescreen TV
    Marantz SR6200 Receiver
    Panasonic RP-82 DVD
    Sony SAT-A50 DSS DD Receiver
    Sonic Frontiers Anthem Amp 1
    Tara Labs-Axiom Interconnects
    Tara Labs Digital 75 Co-axial
    Kinima HiG2 Mains
    Polk CS400i Main Center
    Kinima KC2 Rear Center
    Polk FX300i Rears
    Polk PSW 350 LFE Sub
    M&K V-3B Mains Sub
    M&K V-2B Mains Sub
    M&K LP-1S High Pass Filter
    Ultralink Bi-wiring Thru
    AR Pro Series Interconnects
    Marantz RC2000 MKii Remote
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,848
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by faster100
    Ok then thanks,, seems like very mixed feelings over power output and such, some will say 8 watts is plenty with others saying 50 watts minimum at a very premium price i might add.. i wanted a value minded setup that sounded good also.. I want 2 small speakers on stands with a small tube amp and tuner and maybe a cd player... Thing is i don't want it to sound all distorted when i turn it up a bit.. also i see no way to incorporate a subwoofer in the 2 channel setup.. being a would plan to use small but nice bookshelf speakers i see not much bass response.. any suggestions for the tuber on a budget???


    Well, I grabbed a kit from that tubesandmore place. Seems decent for 140 bucks. I'll be putting that together soon and playing with it. Looks like the older Heathkits. I'll tell you how it works out when I get it finished.

    However, those monoblock amps and that pre-amp from Antinque Labs, that Wave-8 deal looks pretty nice. You can also pick up a fairly inexpensive high power monoblock amp that puts out like 70W x1 I think it was. I'd have to recheck the website to know for sure. Anyway, with a decent set of bookshelf speakers and a sub, you could put together a nice stereo for less than 1500 bucks minu things like CD player and tuner and so on but anything will work with them it seems so you can be budget minded there.

    Even if you don't get into it, tubes are a neat thing to fool around with. They are definitly a different sound but, if they break, they are pretty easy to fix with parts you can find at Radio Shack. Only thing not at the Shack is fuses. But there are places to get them too. I'd recommend a tube amp to anybody. Even if it's just a little pre-amp and amplifier like the Wave-8 stuff for your desk at work.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    How would you hook up a subwoofer from a old pre-amp and tube amp?? They don't exactly have a sub out?? would you just use the high level speaker wire inputs on the sub and run the bookshelfs off like sats....
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • wangotango68wangotango68 Guest Posts: 1,056
    edited January 2003
    scott trigg is who I am. I drink too much and tip too little.
    I have a big mouth, and the cojones to back it up.
    I kick **** and chase tail. I like who I am.
    I love bein' me
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,848
    edited January 2003
    Originally posted by faster100
    How would you hook up a subwoofer from a old pre-amp and tube amp?? They don't exactly have a sub out?? would you just use the high level speaker wire inputs on the sub and run the bookshelfs off like sats....

    The ones I was referring to are not old. They are brand spankin new! All you have to do is run signals to the amps and have 3 seperate amps. One for the left, one for the right, and one for the sub. It is simple to wire up a passive sub crossover on the signal wires to limit the frequency range and the parts can be found at your local Radio Shack.

    However, the pre-amp I am speaking of is also a tube based unit and a pre-amp does not have speaker leads. It has only signal wires which send a signal to the amplifier(s) which then in turn send the signal to the speakers. There is no amplification from the pre-amp. That's why it's called a preamp. It only processes a signal and sends it to am amplifier. The amplifier plays that same signal louder. Trying to run speakers off of a pre-amp signal will not only sound like hell but probably break your pre-amp too.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    Not to get around the subwoofer issue but when you listen to tubes presenting the bass it is different. A little loose, a little more real. Once you notice it you may no longer want a sub.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Jstas:
    I fully understand pre-amps and amps and tuners and all, although i appreciate your explanation, I just am not familiar with tube gear and i was interested in old/vintage tube amps and so that is why i mentioned how to hook up a sub, Thanks

    madmax:
    I was also thinking along those lines as well of not needing a sub anyways... i will most likely stick with polk audio for the speakers and i really like Onkyo and integra gear of older and plan to most likely get a pre-amp by Onkyo Integra and a cd player of some sort and a tube amp or dual mono amps to run a set of polk rti28's or 38's or lsi 7's... we will see though...
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,848
    edited January 2003
    I wasn't trying to be a jerk. In hindsight I probably was. I apologize. It jus threw me for a loop that you asked how it would handle a sub. I guess we weren't on the same page.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited January 2003
    Any of the self powered subs that accept speaker level inputs should work.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • faster100faster100 Posts: 6,247
    edited January 2003
    Jstas:
    You weren't being a jerk i was just letting you know that i knew about the hookup of such pieces so you didn't get into a whole breakdown of hooking it up when i already knew, and i didn't really think first before posting that question i guess, I guess i was just hung up on the sub out hookups like on my receiver and never thought about just hooking the amp to the sub first then to the bookshelf speakers.. anyways i don't know about Tubes at this point, alot of expense.. that might be a long term project later on
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2003
    Tube amps and subs usually don't go too well together. The tubes don't have the damping factor of SS. Subs usually need alot more power also. I'll look around for some other amp suggestions.

    Depending on the size of your room, how loud you like your music and such, any speaker rated @90dB sensitivity should work fine. I heard these last year and really liked them. I've been throwing around the idea of getting some since then.
    http://www.diycable.com/catalog/products/he10_review.htm
    Make it Funky! :)
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited February 2003
  • rnoseworthyrnoseworthy Posts: 41
    edited February 2003
    Fater100 Check some of the links below. Check the FAQ section of the first link I think it will explain the question of why the amps power is different but the results in terms of SPL would be about the same.
    http://www.beauhorn.com/pages/frame.html

    The links below all have some tube amps. I didn't know if you were looking for a kit or not.
    http://www.diycable.com/catalog/default.php
    http://www.welbornelabs.com/index.html also check some of the speakers on the recommended speaker section.
    http://www.bottlehead.com/
    http://www.wright-sound.com/
    http://www.soundsofsilence.com/

    These are a few links that I have found. If you check the links section of some of these sites you will be able to find more. I hope this helps.
  • rnoseworthyrnoseworthy Posts: 41
    edited February 2003
    I apologize for the name typo.
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited February 2003
    One point to make concerning prices of tube amps. Even the cheaper tube amps like I use are comparable to SS amps in the $1500 to $2500 range. $400 spent on a SS amp will not even come close in performance to the same amount spent on a tube amp. It is just that the good tube amps start out at around $1000. Of course used prices are half of that. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • bikezappabikezappa Posts: 2,505
    edited February 2003
    Try any of the Jolida amps. They are completely intergrated, have head phone jack, 50 to 100 watt power and can be purchased for about $500 on ebay. The sound will be educational. My even want to try the Jolida tube CD player for about $500. Have a blast.
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