RTI and LSI comparison
Is it true that the RTi series is only marginally better than the LSi. I'm considering an LSi15. Can I do as well, except for the low end with an RTi. If so which? Another consideration for me is that I don't have separates. My drivers would be an H-K receiver with 120Wpc or an older Yamaha SS DSPA-1000. How would an LSi15 work with either of these or do I have to have something a lot beefier? Thanks for advice.
Post edited by OnlyPolk on
Comments
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In general, people claim the RTi series is better for HT and the LSi series is better for music. I haven't heard the LSi15 in a proper home setting, only in a Tweeter store, where I'm sure it was crippled by being driving w/ a Pioneer AVR. Based on what I have heard, I think the LSi is perhaps a bit better in the high end and the RTi better in the low end, but I find both enjoyable on music. YMMV
If you want the LSi, then you would be better off to buy a separate, high quality amp. LSI is 4 ohms, which is much harder to drive than the 6 ohm RTi.
Cheers, JimA day without music is like a day without food. -
Is it true that the RTi series is only marginally better than the LSi.
No, LSi's are quite a lot better than RTi's. Depends on what HK you have, if it's the lower end models then I wouldn't bother but if it's close to the TOTL then HK will do fine with smaller LSi's, for 15's I would get a separate 2ch amp. -
Depends on what HK you have, if it's the lower end models then I wouldn't bother but if it's close to the TOTL then HK will do fine with smaller LSi's, for 15's I would get a separate 2ch amp.
It's the HK 3485 2 channel 120Wpc (at 8). I also have an HK690i -
LSi's with proper amplification seem to be prefered over the RTi line. IMO, LSi's are leaps and bounds better because of higher quality components and the wonderful Vifa tweeter. If you don't plan on using proper amplification perhaps the extra $$$ isn't worth spending."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul!
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It's the HK 3485 2 channel 120Wpc (at 8).
Hmmm, I have 3375 myself and it did wonderful job with LSi7's. 3485 just might work with 15's, give it a try and if it doesn't you can always get a separate amp to go with it. I never tried my 3375 with my 15's without a separate amp. As a preamp that 3375 sounded great with 15's. -
OnlyPolk, you'll likely see a lot of IMOs on a subject like this. When were talking about speakers generally close together in build quality and price, its my opinion that an individuals preference will fall to the tone of the speaker. All things being equal (and they're not, LSI's have a decidedly better exterior finish and are 4ohm), my advice would be to listen to them and make the decision on your own. Take some music that you are familiar with to the box store - test drive them - check them out.Do you hear that buzzing noise?
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I listened (briefly) to an LSI15 in a Tweeter store. Decided worth pursuing but wanted to buy used. Missed a couple of chances this weekend on this. Meanwhile an opportunity to get a pair of Paradigm Studio 60 v3.'s presents itself. Spent more time listening with these. The environments were different between the two but I found many things to like. They are 8 ohm which suits what I have right now. I won't be an 'OnlyPolk' anymore (I chose that handle in a hurry anyway). Looking for opinions from any who have compared the Lsi15's to the Para. Studio 60 v3.'s ? Thanks.
One of the things that I discovered listening to the Paradigm's is that my old large Advents can reproduce the same low frequencies tho' perhaps not so smoothly. -
I"ve owned both the Lsi15s and the Rti8s and Rti6s . . . The Lsi15s are in a complete leauge of their own. I presently own Acoustic Zen Adagios . . . the lsi15s canghang with theses speakers in some respects. The Rtis just run away crying. There's nom comparison between the top end polks and the Rtis for theater of music. If you have the money, it's a no brainer. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I bought the Rtis and regretted wasting my money after I heard the Lsis in comparison.
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What about the Paradigm's. Maybe I'll get thrown out of here, but perhaps someone has an opinion vis a vis the LSi15's
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I think Sucks2beme has some Paradigm Studio 60's in his setup and really likes them. I would say they are very comparable speakers to the LSi15s, and maybe a good choice if you don't/didn't plan to upgrade your amp.
If you got the Studio 60's for a similar price as LSi15s would've costed ($750 - $1000 used seems to be most common), then you did well. I haven't listened to either much in person, but from reviews, specs, etc. I think they very comparable speakers.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
I've heard good things about paradigms, but never tested.
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I've been looking for a nice bookshelf for my bedroom setup for quite some time. Lsi7s and Paradigm Studio 20's v3 are at the top of the list for the $300 - $400 price range. Seem to be very similar speakers in build quality, finish, ability, performance, so I assume the 40's are like the LSi9s and 60's are there with the LSi15s as well.
I've also got Totem on my list (Dreamcatcher and/or Rainmaker). First great deal I find on any of the three, and I'm jumping on it.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
Oh man . . . the Totems have a sound that is so unique. Wait for those if you can.
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First off, apples and oranges. Secondly, for music you have it bass ackwards. The LSi series is [to me] leaps and bounds better sounding than the RTi's, unless you like your music bright and "detailed" as some say.OnlyPolk wrote:Is it true that the RTi series is only marginally better than the LSi.
The best advise you have received so far IMHO is to go out and listen to both speakers in the same setting, if possible, and let your ears decide.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Yes, I did type my initial question in wrong, I meant to ask whether the LSi is marginally better than the RTi, sorry about that. As for listening, that's the universal advice but to really evaluate speakers you have to listen a lot. I like a wide variety of music and it would be impossible for me to get a good comparison without spending . Plus who can remember which is better without an A-B. I remember the days long ago where dealers would stock a sample of a competitors product just for that purpose (A-B). So I generally lean towards what is considered the best bang for the buck within a price range and what people say (in here).Secondly, for music you have it bass ackwards. The LSi series is [to me] leaps and bounds better sounding than the RTi's -
Yes I can get them for $800, 2 yrs old. I find it odd that Paradigms are reviewed so much more often than Polks. I'm just going by Google. Stereophile reviewer of the 60 himself admitted a bias.If you got the Studio 60's for a similar price as LSi15s would've costed ($750 - $1000 used seems to be most common), then you did well.... but from reviews, specs, etc. I think they very comparable speakers. -
Hey Onlypolk
I'll give my 2 cents worth. I listened to both rti12 and lsi15 at the store when I went looking for my speakers, and I'll be honest I was not to impressed with the Lsi15's, now don't get me wrong they were being powered by a pioneer lowend reciever so I'm sure some more power would do them justice. That being said the RTi12's didn't sound the greatest with this setup either.
Well a month and a half ago JR.com put the 12's on sale for 399 a piece so I bit the bullet and picked myself up a pair. Well they sounded pretty darn good when I got them but they were still missing something. I was powering them witha pair of Parasound HCA-1201A monoblocks (150 Watts each) and just 12 gauge speaker cable with nanners on each end. Well I went and bought a Sherbourn 7/2100A Amp (7 channels @ 200Watts each) on Ebay and bought some ZC-SP14DBI (biwire) speaker cable from zebracables and got them nboth in last week. When I got everything hooked back up I could not believe my ears. There was a big difference in the sound of my 12's.
I guess the point I am trying to make is either speaker will do just fine with ample power but they need power. Now are the Lsi15's worth twice the price of the 12's. For me it wasn't and I found other ways to wake the 12's up.
Jr.com have the 12's for 399 a piece where they have the 15's for 799 a piece.
Glad I have my 12's
Don
HT Rig
Fronts: RTI12
Center: CSI5
Side: RTI10
Rear: FXI5
Sub : SVS PC20-39
HK 645
Sherbourn 7/2100A Power Amplifier -
Seems everyone reads the first post or two of the thread then adds their 2 cents.
OnlyPolk, might want to edit the first post of the thread to add that you are choosing between RTi, LSi15, and Paradigm Studio 60's. I think for $800 (if in really good condition), the Paradigm 60's would get the nod from me.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
Don, you would have noticed just as big a difference if not more with the LSI's being powered with 200wpc. As you stated ALL speakers benefit from lots of power.
Most people when they have an opportunity to hear both RTI's & LSI's powered properly they choose LSI's.Hey Onlypolk
I'll give my 2 cents worth. I listened to both rti12 and lsi15 at the store when I went looking for my speakers, and I'll be honest I was not to impressed with the Lsi15's, now don't get me wrong they were being powered by a pioneer lowend reciever so I'm sure some more power would do them justice. That being said the RTi12's didn't sound the greatest with this setup either.
Well a month and a half ago JR.com put the 12's on sale for 399 a piece so I bit the bullet and picked myself up a pair. Well they sounded pretty darn good when I got them but they were still missing something. I was powering them witha pair of Parasound HCA-1201A monoblocks (150 Watts each) and just 12 gauge speaker cable with nanners on each end. Well I went and bought a Sherbourn 7/2100A Amp (7 channels @ 200Watts each) on Ebay and bought some ZC-SP14DBI (biwire) speaker cable from zebracables and got them nboth in last week. When I got everything hooked back up I could not believe my ears. There was a big difference in the sound of my 12's.
I guess the point I am trying to make is either speaker will do just fine with ample power but they need power. Now are the Lsi15's worth twice the price of the 12's. For me it wasn't and I found other ways to wake the 12's up.
Jr.com have the 12's for 399 a piece where they have the 15's for 799 a piece.
Glad I have my 12's
DonMarantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
EDIT: (per Andy's suggestion) - I meant "is the LSI marginally better than RTi"Is it true that the RTi series is only marginally better than the LSi. I'm considering an LSi15. Can I do as well, except for the low end with an RTi. If so which? Another consideration for me is that I don't have separates. My drivers would be an H-K receiver with 120Wpc or an older Yamaha SS DSPA-1000. How would an LSi15 work with either of these or do I have to have something a lot beefier? Thanks for advice.
I wanted the LSi15 real bad but didn't want to pay new price. There was an auction on 'near mint' LSi15's on e-bay this weekend but I underbid. It went for 622 I think w/o shipping. I may have been able to get it if I were a little bit more aggressive but in hindsight, I'd rather buy something I can lay my hands on first. So I'm more or less set on a pair of Para. 60's. I played a couple of my 'reference' CD's and I liked the detail. I think the LSi's had punchier bass. I'm still going to be on the watch out for an LSi15, perhaps when the new line comes in.It seems Polk has a longer model cycle than Paradigm does. -
First off, apples and oranges. Secondly, for music you have it bass ackwards. The LSi series is [to me] leaps and bounds better sounding than the RTi's, unless you like your music bright and "detailed" as some say.
The best advise you have received so far IMHO is to go out and listen to both speakers in the same setting, if possible, and let your ears decide.
The Lsis and Rtis are not apples and oranges. Lsi15 v. Paradigm v.100 is apples and oranges. The Lsis have better technology and better construction. They are not nearly in the same league to be considered apples and oranges. -
onlypolk,
this summer, i went thru the same process u are now going thru. after listening to many speakers. i narrowed my top 3 down to lsi 15, paradigm 60 and totem arrows. i elimated the arrow (even though they sounded fantastic) because i was listening to them in an acoustically treated small room with arcam separates. i was unsure if they could fill my room (26*12) and sound just as nice.
so it was down to the lsi's and the 60's. (note i originally went to jr to listen to the 12's but thought the 15's sound much better. but keep in mind the 15's at jr are being powered by an amp using 10 gauge wire . which is funny because they dont even sell 10 gauge at jr.)
in the end i decided i liked the sound of the 15's better and the price was also hard to beat with jr's summer sale, even with me having to buy an amp.
but it all depends on what sounds better to you. (although $800 for the 60's is a great deal)Home Theater
lsi 15's, lsi c, lsi f/x
onkyo 805
sunfire tga 5200
toshiba - xa2
panasonic bd30
sony kdl40v2500
svs sb12+ -
Hey Onlypolk
I'll give my 2 cents worth. I listened to both rti12 and lsi15 at the store when I went looking for my speakers, and I'll be honest I was not to impressed with the Lsi15's, now don't get me wrong they were being powered by a pioneer lowend reciever so I'm sure some more power would do them justice. That being said the RTi12's didn't sound the greatest with this setup either.
Well a month and a half ago JR.com put the 12's on sale for 399 a piece so I bit the bullet and picked myself up a pair. Well they sounded pretty darn good when I got them but they were still missing something. I was powering them witha pair of Parasound HCA-1201A monoblocks (150 Watts each) and just 12 gauge speaker cable with nanners on each end. Well I went and bought a Sherbourn 7/2100A Amp (7 channels @ 200Watts each) on Ebay and bought some ZC-SP14DBI (biwire) speaker cable from zebracables and got them nboth in last week. When I got everything hooked back up I could not believe my ears. There was a big difference in the sound of my 12's.
I guess the point I am trying to make is either speaker will do just fine with ample power but they need power. Now are the Lsi15's worth twice the price of the 12's. For me it wasn't and I found other ways to wake the 12's up.
Jr.com have the 12's for 399 a piece where they have the 15's for 799 a piece.
Glad I have my 12's
Don
So when did you listen to the LSi 15's with proper amplification? I'm glad you "woke" up your 12's, but as has been stated umpteen times on here the LSi's in a showroom on a lowly receiver will never sound as good as they can. Put the Sherbourn on a pari of 15's and you would probably sell the 12's
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I'll say it again LSi's are leaps and bounds above the RTi and one of the best values in speakers today.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
Hence "apples and oranges".............4 ohm -vs- 8 ohm/one geared toward HT, one geared toward 2 channel/one needing not so much power and one needing a lot of power.heiney9 wrote:I'll say it again LSi's are leaps and bounds above the RTi and one of the best values in speakers today.
Yada, yada, yada......~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I have both the Paradigm Reference 20v3 and the LSi7's. The 20v3's will blow away the 7's, in my opinion. Both like good amplifiers with lots of dynamic reserves, but high wpc aren't really required. The tweeters are different and really like two different kinds of amplifiers. The Polk Vifa tweeter needs am amplifier that will push it forward, and the Paradigm tweeter really needs an amplifier that will pull it back. The popularity of both lines of speakers is well understood once you have a chance to listen to both and compare. If your budget allows you to get the Paradigm Reference 100v3 (or v4), I wouldn't hesitate to go that route!DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
The LSi's don't really need as much power as gets bantered about on this forum. The LSi's need good amplification, with lots of headroom/dynamic reserve. Most of what people hear when moving to a high wpc amplifier is just overall better sound quality, and there are lower wattage amplifiers that also have very good sound quality. I think the correct statement is that the LSi's perform best with a high quality pre/amplifier or integrated amplifier.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
So when did you listen to the LSi 15's with proper amplification? I'm glad you "woke" up your 12's, but as has been stated umpteen times on here the LSi's in a showroom on a lowly receiver will never sound as good as they can. Put the Sherbourn on a pari of 15's and you would probably sell the 12's.
I'll say it again LSi's are leaps and bounds above the RTi and one of the best values in speakers today.
H9
I never did get a chance to listen to them with proper amplification. Here in Canada we don't get all the option for amplification as you guys in the US, in fact trying to find a place to have even the 15's and 12's at the same time to demo is a almost a miracle. I live in a city of 25,000 people and the nearest major center is 2 1/2 hours away. In fact I might not want to listen to the 15's as if I did want them I would have to have an RTI sale as all my speakers are from the RTI Line however I am very pleased with my setup and I relied heavily upon the wise folks on this forum with there advise on what was better for HT which %90 of my usage is.
I do have to thank alot of you on here for your knowledge and also for the fact that my pocketbook is much lighter then it was a year ago when I first started upgrading my system.
HT Rig
Fronts: RTI12
Center: CSI5
Side: RTI10
Rear: FXI5
Sub : SVS PC20-39
HK 645
Sherbourn 7/2100A Power Amplifier -
I think the RTi's have a lively, crisp, bold sound.....but with that, at least from my point of view, comes a bit too much brightness. I elected to go with LSI 9's and the PSW 1000 sub instead of the RTI 12's or LSI'15's. I would say that the LSI's are less bright, more laid back, probably easier on the ears over long periods of listening, although when I first listened to them at Fry's, they sounded a little muted compared to the RTI 12's. When I got them home and set them up, they sounded much deeper and clearer, and I really liked them. Great for music and very clear and strong for HT too. I'm glad I picked the LSI's.B&W 804s mains
B&W HTM4 center
Polk PSW 1000 sub
Outlaw 990 Pre Amp
Anthem MCA 30 Amp
Monitor Radius 180 surrounds
Audiosource Stereo Amp for surrounds
Denon 2910 Universal DVD/SACD Player
Comcast DVR
Pioneer Elite 42" Plasma 940 HD
Harmony Universal Remote
Blue Jeans interconnects and biwires
Itunes Air Express -
Personally, the RTi series hurts my ears...
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Awww, do we need to get some pluggy-wuggy's for the big baby's ears
:rolleyes:
I can say that when he's a third of a state away and can't come kick my arse DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
