Better Damping Material For The SRS 2's
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ka7niq
Posts: 577
Looking at the SRS 2's, I see the Dacron Pad in the cabinet right behind the drivers.
I was wondering, is it supposed to be mashed back into the cabinet a bit, or come close to the back of the drivers ?
Theory would dictate that it not interfere with the air path of the bass/mid drivers, or it could efect passive tuning ?
There are beter damping materials availiable today, like Acoustistuff.
Thinking about playing with it, or fiberglass even.
Anyone played with this ?
I was wondering, is it supposed to be mashed back into the cabinet a bit, or come close to the back of the drivers ?
Theory would dictate that it not interfere with the air path of the bass/mid drivers, or it could efect passive tuning ?
There are beter damping materials availiable today, like Acoustistuff.
Thinking about playing with it, or fiberglass even.
Anyone played with this ?
Post edited by ka7niq on
Comments
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Have you tried moving the pad from one speaker to the other?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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It is a no cost tweak, and such as:rolleyes:
I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
I don't think that is funny at all.MillerLiteScott wrote: »It is a no cost tweak, and such as:rolleyes:
There is a BIG difference in swapping 25 year old tweeters around, especially when one has seen a LOT more duty then the other. -
I posted a similar question in a thread about my -1C's. So far, no replies. But I might try something like you have in mind as well. I think you're right; there must be a better way to dampen some of the resonance from the encloures.Polk SDA SRS 2
Polk RTA 15tl
Polk Monitor 7C
Polk Lsi9
Infinity RS-II (modded)
Infinity RS-IIIa (modded)
Infinity RS 2.5 x 2
Magnepan 1.6QR (modded)
System: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1290711373 -
I talked to Ken at Polk about this awhile back. His reply is about what I feel. If you want to change it, you'll change characteristics of the speakers tuning. I'm happy with how they are with crossover and tweeter upgrades. I don't have time to do continuous listening tests to see how polyfil compares to dacron compares to fiberglass, etc. Seems like a worthless adventure along with opening up the screw holes even more requiring repair.Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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Good point.Polk SDA SRS 2
Polk RTA 15tl
Polk Monitor 7C
Polk Lsi9
Infinity RS-II (modded)
Infinity RS-IIIa (modded)
Infinity RS 2.5 x 2
Magnepan 1.6QR (modded)
System: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1290711373 -
MillerLiteScott wrote: »It is a no cost tweak, and such as:rolleyes:
Gold, Jerry, pure effing gold!!!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If you are happy with your speakers, great.I talked to Ken at Polk about this awhile back. His reply is about what I feel. If you want to change it, you'll change characteristics of the speakers tuning. I'm happy with how they are with crossover and tweeter upgrades. I don't have time to do continuous listening tests to see how polyfil compares to dacron compares to fiberglass, etc. Seems like a worthless adventure along with opening up the screw holes even more requiring repair.
But please do not ridicule those of us trying to improve ours even more.
That isn't cool.
I have been playing with speakers for over 25 years, and have done every mod conceivable to them from caps, resistors, damping the frames of the drivers, isolating the drivers from the box, etc, etc, etc.
I assure you the back wave reflections of the drivers are critical to a speakers sound.
Sound reflected back through the cone can have as big, or often an even bigger difference then any cap/resistor change.
Better damping materials are availiable today, so why not try them ?
As for the holes getting stripped, that is what Toothpicks are for, LOL
A wood toothpick in a stripped screw hole will fix it quick.
I learned that on the Klipsch forum.
As far as changing the tuning of the box, that can be true if a way bigger/lesser amout of damping is used then what was originally called for.
But as long as you use close to the same amount, one will be OK.
It is even possible to re tune the passive radiator lower by adding small amounts of modeling clay or rope caulk to the passive.
Not that you would want to, but it can be done. -
I TRY and remain objective about speakers, and leave my Ego at the door.I posted a similar question in a thread about my -1C's. So far, no replies. But I might try something like you have in mind as well. I think you're right; there must be a better way to dampen some of the resonance from the encloures.
While I like the SRS 2's, they are but ONE pair of many speakers I own.
Thus, I have other speakers to compare them to.
While they have a LOT going for them, they do have areas I feel might be improved upon.
The rear wave of the bass/midrange drivers can and will reflect back through the cone, coloring the sound.
Since in the SRS 2's Dacron pads are used, there MIGHT be possible improvements to be made there ?
For one thing, Fiberglass is MUCH better at damping then dacron.
But fiberglass is a lot harder to do in production then simply sticking a Dacron pad in there is.
For one thing, in the SRS 2's, Fiberglass can easily fall away from the back of the speaker IF not secured by staples, etc.
Probably the first thing I will try in mine is to simply place some Fiberglass INSIDE the Dacron pad, fold it back up, and re install it.
Then, see how that sounds ?
But first, I want to check everything about my speakers, wires, phasing, proper drivers, etc, etc.
I bought these used from someone who bought these used.
I wanna be sure all is right first. -
I don't think I've ridiculed anyone here about doing upgrades since I am one that is doing it, too. From caps, resistors, tweeters, terminals, wiring, cabinet bracing, insulation, etc, I've experimented with it all in the last 25+ years that I've been in this industry, too. If going to those extra extremes is what floats your boat, then God bless you. I just said I personally don't have the time to go thru all that just to gain what might be a minimal amount of increase to "my" ears. It just gets to a point where the upgrades become less and less noticeable. I'd rather get the typical upgrades done and enjoy the music because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about to me. I'll (again, personally) spend the rest of my time and money enjoying the new music I buy. Just my $.02...YMMV.Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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or it could efect passive tuning ?
Yep!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I posted a similar question in a thread about my -1C's. So far, no replies. But I might try something like you have in mind as well. I think you're right; there must be a better way to dampen some of the resonance from the encloures.
I have 1C's and I notice little to no cabinet resonance. Not saying you don't have any but you might want to look at set-up and room characteristics before automatically blaming the damping material and/or cabinet. Things can always be improved upon, but it's usually at the cost of another (perhaps) desireable characteristic.
I have had Polk's in the past with certain cabinet resonance and it can be quite annoying. The SDA's as a group are pretty colorless speakers as far as cabinet interference. It's mimimal IMO.
YMMV
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
My apologies, It was NOT you.I don't think I've ridiculed anyone here about doing upgrades since I am one that is doing it, too. From caps, resistors, tweeters, terminals, wiring, cabinet bracing, insulation, etc, I've experimented with it all in the last 25+ years that I've been in this industry, too. If going to those extra extremes is what floats your boat, then God bless you. I just said I personally don't have the time to go thru all that just to gain what might be a minimal amount of increase to "my" ears. It just gets to a point where the upgrades become less and less noticeable. I'd rather get the typical upgrades done and enjoy the music because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about to me. I'll (again, personally) spend the rest of my time and money enjoying the new music I buy. Just my $.02...YMMV.
Read the thread, and you will see the snide comment, seconded by another who "co signed it" with his 'pure effing gold" remark.
IMHO, it is a sad day when someone tries to talk about ways to improve his speakers on a Polk forum, and another Polk owner bashes him for attempting to do so. -
Yes, and that is why i want to CHECK all the wiring and the drivers, to see IF something else is wrong ?I have 1C's and I notice little to no cabinet resonance. Not saying you don't have any but you might want to look at set-up and room characteristics before automatically blaming the damping material and/or cabinet. Things can always be improved upon, but it's usually at the cost of another (perhaps) desireable characteristic.
I have had Polk's in the past with certain cabinet resonance and it can be quite annoying. The SDA's as a group are pretty colorless speakers as far as cabinet interference. It's mimimal IMO.
YMMV
H9
As for SRS's being "uncolored" speakers, that is not my experience, so far.
They are musical, but quite colored in comparasion to the B&W 801's and VMPS RM 40's.
The B&W 801's are about as un colored as it gets.
I CAN live with some coloration, almost all speakers do it.
But I like to reduce it as much as I possibly can.
As for the tradeoffs, this can be true.
I will GLADLY give up some bass for lower coloration, but I have Monster Subwoofers.
Others might not wish to make this tradeoff ? -
I don't usually mess with the cabinets of my speakers. The only thing I have ever done was replace the old internal damping material with new damping material.
You are correct about fiberglass being more effective but that will also color the sound considerably.
From what I have seen the Dacron does more for the cabinet resonance then rear wave to the speakers. Were fiberglass will darken the sound and change the volume of your cabinet It will probably also hamper the effect of the passive radiator. Just my $.02.
With that said, Go for it. Let us know how you do. -
My apologies, It was NOT you.
Read the thread, and you will see the snide comment, seconded by another who "co signed it" with his 'pure effing gold" remark.
IMHO, it is a sad day when someone tries to talk about ways to improve his speakers on a Polk forum, and another Polk owner bashes him for attempting to do so.
FYI, you need to have thick skin around here and not be so sensitive to every little off handed comment. Both respondent's are valueable, knowledgable members who would most likely give you the shirt off their back if needed. This is just how this place rolls sometimes.
Computer screen and smart asses make for a lethal combination. I know because I am one of the said smart asses.........ask anyone who knows me.
If this type of exchange is not to your liking I guess you have another option, but you won't find a more knowledgable and helpful bunch of people. We even have some females on here that can go head to head with anyone in audio.
Those are the facts Jack.........
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
The B&W 801's are about as un colored as it gets.
I CAN live with some coloration, almost all speakers do it.
But I like to reduce it as much as I possibly can.
This is where the many different listening experiences and opinions come in. I feel the B & W line is very sterile sounding overall. Not knocking your gear or preferences but each manufacturer has it own innate characteristics and Polk is no exception. I couldn't own B&W's simply because they are too sterile sounding. Their metal tweeters can be very fatiguing if not mated with the proper gear.
YMMV
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Ok, perhaps I was being TOO sensitive, my bad!FYI, you need to have thick skin around here and not be so sensitive to every little off handed comment. Both respondent's are valueable, knowledgable members who would most likely give you the shirt off their back if needed. This is just how this place rolls sometimes.
Computer screen and smart asses make for a lethal combination. I know because I am one of the said smart asses.........ask anyone who knows me.
If this type of exchange is not to your liking I guess you have another option, but you won't find a more knowledgable and helpful bunch of people. We even have some females on here that can go head to head with anyone in audio.
Those are the facts Jack.........
H9
YES, you are right about this being a helpful place!
And YOU have been most helpful too.
I guess I just had a bad day Man -
Yes, and that is why i want to CHECK all the wiring and the drivers, to see IF something else is wrong ?
BTW, this is an excellent first step, especially for a speaker as complicated as the SDA (dimensional drivers, reg drivers, taper array tweeters, etc.).
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
The B&W Matrix 801's are a strange speaker, ya either Love em or Hate em.This is where the many different listening experiences and opinions come in. I feel the B & W line is very sterile sounding overall. Not knocking your gear or preferences but each manufacturer has it own innate characteristics and Polk is no exception. I couldn't own B&W's simply because they are too sterile sounding. Their metal tweeters can be very fatiguing if not mated with the proper gear.
YMMV
H9
They can have their moments, but honestly I like the SRS 2's better!
I am in a Big, dead room, so tweeter brightness is not a problem.
They actually sound quite dull, in my room.
I just LOVE the SRS 2's tonal balance, actually, I just LOVE the SRS 2's, period.
I just gotta get em right, but they will become my number one speaker.
I bought these used, and they have some issues.
Hopefully, with everyone's help, I can get em right.
Hey, w/o hurting my feelings, what Polk do I want to look for to be even better then the SRS 2's ?
And what is the place and reputation of the SRS 2's I own in the "Polk scheme of things" ?
I live in Florida, lots of people come here to retire and Die.
Estate sales are a daily occurrence here.
WHAT is THE ultimate SDA speaker Polk made.
Tell me, and I will look for it ? -
Thanks for the encouragement!BTW, this is an excellent first step, especially for a speaker as complicated as the SDA (dimensional drivers, reg drivers, taper array tweeters, etc.).
H9
I LOVE these speakers, and want them to be all they CAN be. -
The B&W Matrix 801's are a strange speaker, ya either Love em or Hate em.
They can have their moments, but honestly I like the SRS 2's better!
I am in a Big, dead room, so tweeter brightness is not a problem.
They actually sound quite dull, in my room.
I just LOVE the SRS 2's tonal balance, actually, I just LOVE the SRS 2's, period.
I just gotta get em right, but they will become my number one speaker.
I bought these used, and they have some issues.
Hopefully, with everyone's help, I can get em right.
Hey, w/o hurting my feelings, what Polk do I want to look for to be even better then the SRS 2's ?
And what is the place and reputation of the SRS 2's I own in the "Polk scheme of things" ?
I live in Florida, lots of people come here to retire and Die.
Estate sales are a daily occurrence here.
WHAT is THE ultimate SDA speaker Polk made.
Tell me, and I will look for it ?
Well we all have our favorites and the SRS 2's are no slouch. The ultimate, considering you have the space, are SRS 1.2 TL's. They were the largest and the "TL" line being the last production series of SDA's had the best engineering. The 2.3 TL's aren't far behind and anothe big favorite around here are the SDA 1C's.
The larger SDA's are a bit more dynamic and add a bit more scale but you need the room to take advantage of them. I have an average sized room and I honestly don't think I could get a much better sound moving from my 1C's to the larger SRS "TL's".
Redoing the x-over and ensuring all wiring is intact and corrosion free is honestly the best step you can take. Next would be the RD0 silk dome tweeter.
Many here have the SRS 2's and SDA 1C's in the top 3 of all the SDA's. Again if you have the real estate the big SRS 1.2 TL's would be the ticket but really getting the SRS 2's right with the upgrades, etc. will give you all the SDA performance you could ever want.
They have a very addictive sound and I can't tell you how simple, high quality, x-over parts can transform the speakers. I was never a fan of the sl2000 tweeter so the RD0 replacement was a major step up for me personally.
I have Monitor 5b's with Solens, Mills and RD0's in the office (big improvement) and SDA 1C's with Sonic Caps, Mills, RD0's and Vampire terminals in the main rig. Life couldn't be better. Now all I need to do is raise some funds to get the Pass Labs amp I want..........:D
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Many here have the SRS 2's and SDA 1C's in the top 3 of all the SDA's. Again if you have the real estate the big SRS 1.2 TL's would be the ticket but really getting the SRS 2's right with the upgrades, etc. will give you all the SDA performance you could ever want.
I always like reading that as I have the SDA 1C's with the crossovers redone and the SRS2's which are about to be redone. Love 'em both. I agree that as much as I would like to have a pair of the larger ones, I just don't have the space in my office or living room (even if it is 23 X 20...it's the layout) to do them justice.Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner. -
I am sure you want a Pass labs X 350 ?Well we all have our favorites and the SRS 2's are no slouch. The ultimate, considering you have the space, are SRS 1.2 Tl's. They were the largest and the "TL" line being the last production series of SDA's had the best engineering. The 2.3 Tl's aren't far behind and another big favorite around here are the SDA 1C's.
The larger SDA's are a bit more dynamic and add a bit more scale but you need the room to take advantage of them. I have an average sized room and I honestly don't think I could get a much better sound moving from my 1C's to the larger SRS "Tl's".
Redoing the x-over and ensuring all wiring is intact and corrosion free is honestly the best step you can take. Next would be the RD0 silk dome tweeter.
Many here have the SRS 2's and SDA 1C's in the top 3 of all the SDA's. Again if you have the real estate the big SRS 1.2 Tl's would be the ticket but really getting the SRS 2's right with the upgrades, etc. will give you all the SDA performance you could ever want.
They have a very addictive sound and I can't tell you how simple, high quality, x-over parts can transform the speakers. I was never a fan of the sl2000 tweeter so the RD0 replacement was a major step up for me personally.
I have Monitor 5b's with Solens, Mills and RD0's in the office (big improvement) and SDA 1C's with Sonic Caps, Mills, RD0's and Vampire terminals in the main rig. Life couldn't be better. Now all I need to do is raise some funds to get the Pass Labs amp I want..........:D
H9
And why not ?
Who don't want one ?
I have heard that a Threshold S 500 series 2 is close to an X 350.
In the B&W 801 World, many recording engineers and mastering guys used the Matrix 801 in the past.'
Some still do.
They all use Threshold S 500 series 2's, one per 801, sitting right next to the speaker.
When I owned Quad 57's, I had a Pass 40 amp.
It was built from a kit Nelson designed for Audio Amateur magazine.
I bought it already assembled by a fellow audiophile.
It was the best amp i ever used on the old Quad 57's.
The Pass Labs Aleph;s are great too.
My old Infinity Prelude Pfr were 96 db.
The guy i sold em to used an Aleph.
Pass Labs is good stuff! -
I am sure you want a Pass labs X 350 ?
And why not ?
Who don't want one ?
I have heard that a Threshold S 500 series 2 is close to an X 350.
In the B&W 801 World, many recording engineers and mastering guys used the Matrix 801 in the past.'
Some still do.
They all use Threshold S 500 series 2's, one per 801, sitting right next to the speaker.
When I owned Quad 57's, I had a Pass 40 amp.
It was built from a kit Nelson designed for Audio Amateur magazine.
I bought it already assembled by a fellow audiophile.
It was the best amp i ever used on the old Quad 57's.
The Pass Labs Aleph;s are great too.
My old Infinity Prelude Pfr were 96 db.
The guy i sold em to used an Aleph.
Pass Labs is good stuff!
Problem is all (well most) Pass Labs stuff is Non-common ground and is not compatible with SDA's without using the AI-1 interphase cable. My 1C's are capable of utilizing the AI-1 cable but I'd have to build one or find one on e-bay.
I'm thinking long the lines of and Aleph 30 or the newer Aleph J. The X series would be wonderful but a used X350 goes for 3-4K, more than I want to spend."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
My SRS 2's are SICK.Problem is all (well most) Pass Labs stuff is Non-common ground and is not compatible with SDA's without using the AI-1 interphase cable. My 1C's are capable of utilizing the AI-1 cable but I'd have to build one or find one on e-bay.
I'm thinking long the lines of and Aleph 30 or the newer Aleph J. The X series would be wonderful but a used X350 goes for 3-4K, more than I want to spend.
The tweeters on one side were completely out of phase, 6510 and 6511 drivers mixed up, and one welded 6510.
I wired em right, and unhooked the SDA cable since I have a dead 6510 SDA driver.
They are MUCH brighter now.
Image wanders to one side where all drivers work.
The dead driver is effecting the left side crossover I think.
Or is it the Polyswitches.
They GOTTA go, next project.
The out of phase tweetrs on one side gave a suckout, and a mellow sound.
Now I can HEAR the tweeters.
I have several amps to try on them, once I get em right.
Wonder how they would sound with a chip or an ICE module amp ?
