Easy, No Cost Improvement For SOME SDA SRS Speakers!
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ka7niq
Posts: 577
I have Polk SRS 2's.
My speakers only use the SDA Dimensional drivers up to 2 K.
This means one tweeter rolls off, and the other one goes all the way out to 20 k.
I thought to myself "Why not SWITCH the tweeters around, since one spent ALL it's life reproducing everything up to 20K, and one spent all it's life loafing ?
Think about it, the tweeter that only was allowed to go up to 2K had a MUCH easier life ?
So, I did it.
BIG difference, the highs are more defined and airy with better sparkle.
Cleaner sounding too, with LESS SL 2000 Grunge.
A BIG Improvement, and costs NOTHING.
Be SURE to have help when you do it, and be CAREFUL.
A tweeter wire can easily fall right into the cabinet.
Mine did, and I had to pull the passive to retrieve it.
Pay attention to wiring and tweeter orientation, the tweeters are NOT marked.
Easy IF you have help, hard working alone.
I did mine in place, standing up.
It would be better to lay em down, but I wanted them in EXACTLY the same spots to HEAR any difference.
My speakers only use the SDA Dimensional drivers up to 2 K.
This means one tweeter rolls off, and the other one goes all the way out to 20 k.
I thought to myself "Why not SWITCH the tweeters around, since one spent ALL it's life reproducing everything up to 20K, and one spent all it's life loafing ?
Think about it, the tweeter that only was allowed to go up to 2K had a MUCH easier life ?
So, I did it.
BIG difference, the highs are more defined and airy with better sparkle.
Cleaner sounding too, with LESS SL 2000 Grunge.
A BIG Improvement, and costs NOTHING.
Be SURE to have help when you do it, and be CAREFUL.
A tweeter wire can easily fall right into the cabinet.
Mine did, and I had to pull the passive to retrieve it.
Pay attention to wiring and tweeter orientation, the tweeters are NOT marked.
Easy IF you have help, hard working alone.
I did mine in place, standing up.
It would be better to lay em down, but I wanted them in EXACTLY the same spots to HEAR any difference.
Post edited by ka7niq on
Comments
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I better idea would be to replace the nasty SL2000's with RD0194-1's.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I better idea would be to replace the nasty SL2000's with RD0194-1's.
Naw... that would require the results to be good.. and no one wants good sounding SDA's. :rolleyes:
i got the last two RD0-194's for my SDA2's. thats why there is a shortage now.
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
I swap mine around every year or so for this reason.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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danger boy wrote: »Naw... that would require the results to be good.. and no one wants good sounding SDA's. :rolleyes:
i got the last two RD0-194's for my SDA2's. thats why there is a shortage now.
Shuddup. I'm still waiting....Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner. -
Yes, that is the ultimate goal, but Polk is OUT of them.I better idea would be to replace the nasty SL2000's with RD0194-1's.
To be honest, I am a BIT leery about replacing my tweeters.
Unless the tweeters are alsmost identical electrically, there will be a change in the crossover response to a different driver.
I wonder IF Polk tested them to see if they are really "drop in replacements" ?
It would appear they have, judging from someone who has his old drivers up at Polk for evaluation against the new replacements. -
Yes, it made a BIG difference in my SRS 2's.I swap mine around every year or so for this reason.
madmax
It will have to do until the new tweeters arrive at Polk.
Then I am down for 4 of them! -
I really do not think the SL 2000 is a horrible tweeter.danger boy wrote: »Naw... that would require the results to be good.. and no one wants good sounding SDA's. :rolleyes:
i got the last two RD0-194's for my SDA2's. thats why there is a shortage now.
It's lower range is pretty smooth, but I do hear the peak in it;s upper range.
It is not the fastest, most detailed tweeter for sure.
It is actually quite slow, and muffled sounding in comparasion to my B&W 801's tweeters.
It's tweeters are also no match for the VMPS RM 40's I own.
Both the VMPS RM 40's and B&W 801's are way more transparent and un colored sounding them the SRS 2's, but ONLY on the best recordings.
I LIKE the SRS 2's because they are musical, powerful, and forgiving, and image like no tomorrow.
TOO bad Polk don't make an upgrade for all us SRS SDA owners to use the Viva Ring Radiator tweeter from the LSI's ?
Now THAT is a good tweeter if used correctly.
What is the SEAS tweeter like, in comparasion to the SL 2000 ?
What is gained, what is lost ? -
To be honest, I am a BIT leery about replacing my tweeters.
Don't be. Everything is better, nothing is worse. In fact, you won't be able to listen to the 2000's after hearing the replacements.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Cool !Don't be. Everything is better, nothing is worse. In fact, you won't be able to listen to the 2000's after hearing the replacements.
I was going to buy 4 from Ken based on the suggestions of many here on the forum.
I LOVE the SRS 2's, I really do!
Actually, I prefer them to all the speakers I own.
They make me SMILE and tap my toes.
I haven't really tried ALL my amps and stuff on them yet.
From what I hear so far, they seem to want a fast, detailed amp, with a lot of control.
They are looking to become my MAIN speakers, and I have several pairs too.
I like their forgiving nature in comparison to my 801's and VMPS RM 40's.
A LOT of what I listen to is not the very best recordings.
The 801's and VMPS RM 40's are ruthless in their resolving capacity.
The SRS 2's are much more forgiving and easy to listen to.
The warm, forgiving nature of the SRS 2's,. combined with their power with the right amp, and the wild imaging make for a speaker I like very much. -
Also remember if for some very slim reason you don't like the RD0's you can sell them here for minimal loss.
The RD0's are excellent replacements and they were approved by Polk. Several manufacturer's submitted designs based on design parameters set up by the engineering dept. at Polk and they choose the best alternative to the originals. So feel confident because Polk didn't just choose something off the shelf. They put some time and effort in choosing a suitable replacement.
FYI, the sl2000 tweeter has always had +5-6dB peak at around 13kHz which gives it that very forward resonance. The silk dome cures this problem. The "TL" series tweeter's (sl 2500 and sl3000) certainly were better than the sl2000, but the RD0 series is even better yet.
I myself was very skeptical that a tweeter could be such an improvement all by itself, but the hype on here is true. Do it you won't regret it and you'll like your SRS 2's even more.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
My room is quite dead, so the peak is not my main complaint.Also remember if for some very slim reason you don't like the RD0's you can sell them here for minimal loss.
The RD0's are excellent replacements and they were approved by Polk. Several manufacturer's submitted designs based on design parameters set up by the engineering dept. at Polk and they choose the best alternative to the originals. So feel confident because Polk didn't just choose something off the shelf. They put some time and effort in choosing a suitable replacement.
FYI, the sl2000 tweeter has always had +5-6dB peak at around 13kHz which gives it that very forward resonance. The silk dome cures this problem. The "TL" series tweeter's (sl 2500 and sl3000) certainly were better than the sl2000, but the RD0 series is even better yet.
I myself was very skeptical that a tweeter could be such an improvement all by itself, but the hype on here is true. Do it you won't regret it and you'll like your SRS 2's even more.
H9
The SL 2000 has a smooth lower range, I like that.
It is the speed of the tweeter that bugs me.
It sounds sluggish, and blurs detail.
I would HOPE the new tweeter is better trainsient response wise, and perhaps more extended up top ? -
My sl2000's became brighter and I guess you could say detailed the more I upgraded interconnects and speaker cables which might be your problem instead of the tweeter itself.
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Well, my system is optimized for VMPS RM 40's and B&W 801's i also own.candyliquor35m wrote: »My sl2000's became brighter and I guess you could say detailed the more I upgraded interconnects and speaker cables which might be your problem instead of the tweeter itself.
The Bi Wire Radio Shack Flat Wire Cable is very smooth, almost laid back.
Just right for the revealing 801's and RM 40's.
The SRS 2's are almost too laid back, and perhaps need a different cable ?
I plan on using TWO of my big amps on them, ONE driving each speaker in a vertical bi amp set up with long/balanced interconnects.
This will get rid of almost all speaker cable, and increase amplifier damping.
The extra control provided by this bi amp arrangement should light em up.
I posted in another thread about what amps I am currently using.
They work REALLY well on the SRS 2's, dynamics like you wouldn't believe.
Outperformed a Big Sunfire amp on the SRS 2's.
The big Sunfire is a dark sounding amp, powerful it is,, with great bass, but too dark IMHO for the SRS 2's.
These speakers need an amp with speed and control.
Like a Krell or Spectral.
I WISH I still had my big Krell for these.
The Krell has a high end that goes way out, it is bright on MOST speakers.
The SRS 2's are slightly rolled off sounding, and IMHO, would benefit from an almost bright amp.
I say bright as in having an extended top end, NOT harsh.
Audire Noble Monoblocks, Some Krell and Spectral, and some other amps have this sound. -
My room is quite dead, so the peak is not my main complaint.
The SL 2000 has a smooth lower range, I like that.
It is the speed of the tweeter that bugs me.
It sounds sluggish, and blurs detail.
I would HOPE the new tweeter is better trainsient response wise, and perhaps more extended up top ?
It won't be more extended and I doubt the transtient response is much different. It is a better sounding tweeter all the way around. It is much more effortless is the way I'd describe it. It's laid back and smooth but still retains a great deal of detail. Be interesting to see what you think.
Again no problem flipping them if you're unhappy with the RD0's. I have yet to hear a person who has switched that wasn't happy with them.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I plan on using TWO of my big amps on them, ONE driving each speaker in a vertical bi amp set up with long/balanced interconnects.
Audire Noble Monoblocks, Some Krell and Spectral, and some other amps have this sound.
Be aware of the common ground amplifier issue if you don't have the optional AI-1 interphase cable.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I wonder IF Polk tested them to see if they are really "drop in replacements" ?
Well if they didn't I did (16 times) and I can confirm they dropped right in.
Oh and they sound better .....to me.polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
Rega Apollo
MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)
polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
B&K 505
Samsung LCD
VIP 622
HSU STF-2 -
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I have 2 194's on the shelf right now collecting dust. I'll sell them for the same price shipped as polk does since they're in such high demand. Anything to help polk out. They may have 50 hours on them if that much. I'm running sl2000's and 3000's in mine.
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Again, my caps MAY be bad in my speakers ?It won't be more extended and I doubt the transtient response is much different. It is a better sounding tweeter all the way around. It is much more effortless is the way I'd describe it. It's laid back and smooth but still retains a great deal of detail. Be interesting to see what you think.
Again no problem flipping them if you're unhappy with the RD0's. I have yet to hear a person who has switched that wasn't happy with them.
H9
Aging caps lose capacitance, shifting the crossover point upward.
This means the midrange drivers now handle a larger part of the treble, and that would sound slow.
Resistors can change values, or be WAY off base from their ratings.
In my old Polk RT 2000P's, the resistors measured 3 ohms, yet rated at 1!
A higher value resistor then what Brad Starobin or Matt intended can kill a tweeters sound.
Scared to go back in though .....
Had to pull my passive in one speaker to get that dam green wire that fell back into the box when I was changin tweeters around.
ARE new passive gaskets availiable ?
Hope so, hate to get out the Silicon .... messy stuff! -
Have you changed caps/resistors, switched tweter positions, etc ?candyliquor35m wrote: »I have 2 194's on the shelf right now collecting dust. I'll sell them for the same price shipped as polk does since they're in such high demand. Anything to help polk out. They may have 50 hours on them if that much. I'm running sl2000's and 3000's in mine. -
I was on a sl3000 binge for awhile because it seems to be right in the middle of the sl2000 and the 194 so I put them in my srs's and 2.3's and 2b's but then someone suggested a 2.2uf/50v mylar cap on each 2000 so I tried that and liked it. I left the 3000's in the 2.3's just for variety. So the 2000's got juggled in the srs's by accident. I haven't upgraded any of the crossovers.
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Thanks Bro !Be aware of the common ground amplifier issue if you don't have the optional AI-1 interface cable.
H9
Right now, I am using the "pro sound amp" on mine with great success I bought cheap on EBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3800-Watt-Professional-DJ-Power-Powered-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ200149326305QQihZ010QQcategoryZ23787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It is claimed to be 400 rms channel into 8 ohms.
We tested it at only 364 watts at clipping into 8.
It put out over 500 watts into 4 ohms before the bench power supply crapped out
It is a very good sounding amplifier, especially since you can get one for less then 200 bucks brand new!
My tech looked inside it, and what do ya know ?
It is a current mirror design, if you know what that is.
8 BIG azz bipolars per side the size of quarters, and 40, 000 mfd's of capacitance per side done right.'
Two smaller caps in Parallel per side for LOW output impedance.
Bass kicks azz, and amp sounds like unlimited power.
Only "downside" is it has fans you can hear when you really lean into it.
Several people who jumped on these amps replaced the fans with quieter fans.
It hasn't bugged me enough yet.
My preamp is not balanced, either one, but I just use RCA to balanced Interconnects.
The SRS 2's with this amp crank almost like Horns, and sound wonderful doing it.
I have used this amp on VMPS RM 40's and B&W 801's, it is not bright, at all.
I Almost wish it was for the SRS 2's.
I like it better, MUCH better then my Adcom 585.
My Moscode 600 is being repaired, so I have not compared it with that.
I have two of these, but my best friend, who also owns VMPS RM 40's is using the other one on his speakers.
His amp is being repaired.
He too was suprised at HOW good this amp is.
VMPS RM 40's and B&W 801's are very fussy speakers, super critical of everything. -
Actually I mis-spoke regarding the AI-1 interphase cable. I don't believe it can be used with SRS 2's, which means you can't use non-common ground amplifiers with your SRS 2's. Now since yours is a pin/blade it is a possibility.
To my knowledge they didn't make SDA's non-common ground compatible (AI-1 cable option) until the 1987 run of 1C's, 2B's and SRS. This would have been after the last production run of SRS 2's. But as always with Polk there are changeover models that defy common catagorization.
If this will be an issue call Ken S. at Polk and discuss it with him about your specific pair of SRS 2's.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I really doubt I have, or plan to use a common ground amp with the SRS 2's.Actually I mis-spoke regarding the AI-1 interphase cable. I don't believe it can be used with SRS 2's, which means you can't use non-common ground amplifiers with your SRS 2's. Now since yours is a pin/blade it is a possibility.
To my knowledge they didn't make SDA's non-common ground compatible (AI-1 cable option) until the 1987 run of 1C's, 2B's and SRS. This would have been after the last production run of SRS 2's. But as always with Polk there are changeover models that defy common catagorization.
If this will be an issue call Ken S. at Polk and discuss it with him about your specific pair of SRS 2's.
H9
They sound so good with the amp I am now using, I might just stick with them ?
I tried a Parasound and an Adcom amp last night with the SRS 2's.
Actually, they sounded pretty good with all amps I tried.
I do not find the SRS 2 to be a real "amp critical" speaker, like my B&W 801's and VMPS RM 40's are.
Dynamics suffered with the smaller Adcom and Parasound amps in comparasion to the Monster amp I am using, but overall sound was good with all amps tried so far. -
I really doubt I have, or plan to use a common ground amp with the SRS 2's.They sound so good with the amp I am now using, I might just stick with them ?
I tried a Parasound and an Adcom amp last night with the SRS 2's.
Actually, they sounded pretty good with all amps I tried.
I do not find the SRS 2 to be a real "amp critical" speaker, like my B&W 801's and VMPS RM 40's are.
Dynamics suffered with the smaller Adcom and Parasound amps in comparasion to the Monster amp I am using, but overall sound was good with all amps tried so far.
Things are getting confusing here. Did you mean to say "I don't plan on using NON-common ground amps? What Polk means by common ground is the the negative speaker terminals use the the same ground.
Mono bloc's, bridged stereo and balanced amps are all non-common ground type amplifiers (there are exceptions I'm sure) even dual mono designs like your Adcom GFA-585 are non-common ground. If you use these types of amplifiers you risk (very good risk) damaging your SRS 2's and/or the amplifier. Some here have had success running mono's in non-common ground config, but I'd doubt they'd recommend others do the same.
Just throwing it out there so you know......you are free to do what you want with whatever gear you have but non-common ground amps don't work well with SDA's and not just from sound perspective.
Ask Engtaz about his experience.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Does anyone rotate their stereo and dimensional drivers? Or are they different drivers. I'm too lazy to look at the compendium.
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candyliquor35m wrote: »Does anyone rotate their stereo and dimensional drivers? Or are they different drivers. I'm too lazy to look at the compendium.
Different drivers"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
The dimensional drivers are different, but the tweeters in my SRS 2's are the same.candyliquor35m wrote: »Does anyone rotate their stereo and dimensional drivers? Or are they different drivers. I'm too lazy to look at the compendium.
I rotated them with spectacular results.
Almost like having new tweeters -
Yes, one must be careful!Things are getting confusing here. Did you mean to say "I don't plan on using NON-common ground amps? What Polk means by common ground is the the negative speaker terminals use the the same ground.
Mono bloc's, bridged stereo and balanced amps are all non-common ground type amplifiers (there are exceptions I'm sure) even dual mono designs like your Adcom GFA-585 are non-common ground. If you use these types of amplifiers you risk (very good risk) damaging your SRS 2's and/or the amplifier. Some here have had success running mono's in non-common ground config, but I'd doubt they'd recommend others do the same.
Just throwing it out there so you know......you are free to do what you want with whatever gear you have but non-common ground amps don't work well with SDA's and not just from sound perspective.
Ask Engtaz about his experience.
H9
