Where should I put my 2.3s (L/R) in surround?
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Phil Dawson
Posts: 288
I am setting up my 5.1 system again after moving and I wonder if anyone has any input on which side I should put the rear speakers on? The fronts are SRA SRS and the rears are 2.3tls. Should the rears be oriented (L/R) to match the fronts or should they be placed on their respective sides as you face them? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Phil
Thanks, Phil
Post edited by Phil Dawson on
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For you to use the SDA effect, I would think placing them Left on the left when you face them and right on the rightDodd - Battery Preamp
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They should be setup in another 2 channel rig, and you should find a pair of Monitor or RTA series speakers to use as rears.Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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They should be setup in another 2 channel rig, and you should find a pair of Monitor or RTA series speakers to use as rears.
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I have used them as rears in the past and had very good results although I've always wonder about the left right question and whether I should place them as I look at them or as they line up with the back of my ears. I am curious as to why you folks think that they shouldn't be used as rears? I use a pair of cs400is for the center.
Thanks, Phil -
You could use them as surrounds but do not use the cable. It will mess up the separation you need for surround.engtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
You could use them as surrounds but do not use the cable. It will mess up the separation you need for surround.
If you don't use the IC, you're only going to hear half of each speaker. But then, as stated in other posts, SDAs are better used elsewhere.David -
If the cable is good on the fronts in surround why wouldn't it also work on the rears. Why should I disconnect the cable? My understanding is that the cable sends a signal to the other channel slightly out of phase so that there is some phase cancellation and you get a cleaner stereo image because the sound wrapping around your head to the other ear is canceled out and you don't hear that delayed sound. Thus you have a cleaner signal. This is a music 5.1 surround and used only occasionally for HT. Why is my thinking incorrect? Have any of you tried using SDAs in all four corners?
Thanks, Phil -
Phil Dawson wrote: »I am curious as to why you folks think that they shouldn't be used as rears?
Thanks, Phil
Because it's like using a dump truck to haul a 10lb bag of potting soil. It's complete overkill and a huge waste of a great speaker. They deserve better than simple surround duty. They are yours to do with what you want, but there are many out there that could use them to their full potential so why not hook a polkie up if all you are using them for is surrounds. RTA or Monitor Series will get the job just as well.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
To quote Tomlinson Holman (the TH in THX) from his book "5.1 Surround Sound Up and Running". "Monitor loudspeakers should meet certain specifications that are given. They vary depending on room size and application, but one principle is that all of the channels should be able to play at the same maximum level and have the same bandwidth." If you haven't experienced music in high resolution surround (SACD or DVDA or DTS) played on a top quality system then you have truly missed an enjoyable experience. Two channel is great but music can sound better. Please don't confuse 5.1 home theater with 5.1 audio-they are two completely different animals.
Happy listening, Phil -
Phil Dawson wrote: »To quote Tomlinson Holman (the TH in THX) from his book Please don't confuse 5.1 home theater with 5.1 audio-they are two completely different animals.
Happy listening, Phil
THX certification is highly over rated. I'll give you the 5.1 audio vs. 5.1 HT. Different animals, but I still prefer 2 ch for audio.
Happy listening to you as well
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
THX certification aside Holman was one of the fathers of surround sound as we know it today. He is a very fine audio engineer and one of the foremost authorities on recording, mixing, and monitoring in surround sound in both the music and theater worlds. His standards for the big screen theaters (as in you go to them) have greatly improved that experience. If you get a chance to read any of his books (you can barrow them from your local library or get them on inter-library loan) they are well worth the time spent. Give a good surround system a chance, if you are ever near the north end of Yellowstone Park you are welcome to listen to my rig. I know a good number of people that after hearing good surround audio went out and spent a great deal of money to go from 2 channel to 5.1. The high resolution is another topic but well worth it even in 2 channel. It all sounds good even mono (Pet Sounds was originally released in mono and doesn't sound bad that way either). I'm currently listening in 2 channel and it sure doesn't sound bad. We just can never have enough speakers, amps, CD players, tuners, turntables, and all of the other goodies.
Life is good, enjoy, Phil -
I know your using only half the speaker. I was just giving advice if he was going to do it that would be the best way because the SDA effect merges the sound together into a soundstage not good for surround speaker where he wants them.engtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
For you to use the SDA effect, I would think placing them Left on the left when you face them and right on the right
hoosier21 with SDA in his DNA nailed it.
Rear SDA works with SRT's so it shouldn't be any different for SDA's if the interconnect is attached and there is discrete source.
SRT HT systems were initially configured with SRT f/x dipole/bipole surrounds similar to the LS f/x. Optionally you could purchase larger SRT rear surrounds (think Polk HQ SRT room) or a duplicate pair of left and right satellites. Both of these options require discrete rear channels from your AV processor and an additional SRT controller.
From the SRT manual page 46:
"If you really want rear channel dynamic range you can duplicate your left and right front stacks, including the control center and subwoofers, and place them in the back of your room. If you have discrete rear channels, as in AC-3, you will get all the benefits of SDA soundstage technology behind as well as in front of you. It will probably scare you!
Hook-up through a second SRT control center is exactly the same as the left and right front except that the rear channel outputs are used instead and the center channel connections are ignored".
Should your AV processor have discrete rear outputs, setup your SDA 2.3TL's with the interconnect attached.
If your 2.3TL's have sentimental value or excite you, use them. However, If you are using them only because it's what you have laying around I would look at other options. Polk Audio's recommendations for rear surrounds are based on timbre match, power handling, and what is currently available. At one time LS f/x or F/X1000's were the rear surround suggestions for SRS models. The LSiFX has the power but I have never heard them so I cannot comment.
At least you are using them. There are far worse things like storing them in a closet, public storage yard, or parting them out. Some day I hope to visit Yellowstone so don't be surprised to hear a phone call from someone suffering from SDA and caffeine withdrawal.
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The whole idea of the concept of surround is that loudspeakers be positioned along the sidewalls and rear wall to cover the listening area this has been the norm for many decades now.
Some home cinema owners get a little muddled up and confused with the 5.1 6.1 concept believing it should only be six loudspeakers placed in the room three matching loudspeakers across the front for perfect imaging of the sound, two loudspeakers placed on the rear wall and lastly the sub bass which belongs up front beneath the centre channel if at all possible.
But its the surrounds that really sound poorly in most homes and Ive heard a few that have so poorer surround that makes it so difficult to get involved with the movie that has Dolby stereo Dolby digital 4.0, 4.1, 5.1 or with centre back surround.
You should really place at least four loudspeakers on the rear wall and four to five down the sidewalls spaced out evenly. This will really draw you into the action of the film.
Use mono-pole loudspeakers only smaller types than the fronts but make sure each one has sufficient power handling frequency response and sensitivity. Place them not too high in the room just few feet above the listening area would be fine.:) -
THX 3417, If you are familiar with Carver holography, Polk Audio SDA speakers are similar (most agree better) but use a passive approach in the crossovers with an interconnect cable. www.polksda.com has a collection of reading material.
Phil, I just re-read this and see your question about using them in corners? Placing them in corners is going to screw up the SDA. A waste of a great speaker unless they give you wood.
The SRT comment is as illustration of how they achieve rear SDA surround. To simulate what they do, your front SRS should be placed per the manual with the interconnect. A seating area in the middle of the room. Rear 2.3's setup the same as the front. Let us know how it works out. -
Ah, wonderful, back to the origanal question. I realize that corners are a no-no. The question is should both of the "left" speakers be on the same side or reversed for the rear - that is on the left and right as you face them? I have run both lefts on the same side in the past with good results - I was looking for feedback if anyone had done it the other way. These are kind of large and heavy to be moving around a bunch. Thanks for your help on this.
Phil -
I would arrange the Left and Right as you are facing them, to put the SDA drivers on the correct side of the cabinet. When you hook up the speaker wires, I would wire so that the left and right are the SAME as the front. In other words the speaker wiring on the rear SDA's will be opposite of what the back of the cabinet says for left/right.
Hope that made sense. -
YOU SHOULD PUT THEM IN MY LIVINGROOM... CASE CLOSED!!!:cool:
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I think I have the perfect spot for them in my living room ....hahaha gary beat me to it !! dang:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
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