11T crossover resistor

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riglehart
riglehart Posts: 276
edited May 2007 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I have a bad resistor in my 11T. (See vintage speaker thread for pic if you are interested). They have a 2.0 and a 2.7 ohm, 5w, 10%. I'm going to do them all while I'm at it. I found these...

http://www.parts-express.com/webpage.cfm?WebPage_ID=141&raid=1&rak=resistor

I don't need to get fancy. Are the POLK stock ones just the cheapy wire wound ones, or are they non-inductive? Put another way, if I use the cheapy ones will I still have the same quality as the original?

Can the lay person notice any difference?
Jolida Tube
Polk 11T, 7, 5, 5jr, 4
Standard equip not worth bragging about.
Post edited by riglehart on

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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2007
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    not sure about this reply,,but, I've always used the mills wirewound resistors when upgrading polk crossovers.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • riglehart
    riglehart Posts: 276
    edited May 2007
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    Any harm in using a 2.4 or 2.5 in place of the 2.7ohm? They don't have the 2.7. The stock ones say 10% anyway. I assume this means +/- 10%.

    I have a feeling this is leading to a full rebuild...

    I started out with the Polyswitches, found a bad resistor, might as well do all the resistors, might as well do the caps with the solder gun handy and I'm placing orders for parts anyway.

    This hobby is one big slippery slope!
    Jolida Tube
    Polk 11T, 7, 5, 5jr, 4
    Standard equip not worth bragging about.
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2007
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    riglehart wrote: »
    Any harm in using a 2.4 or 2.5 in place of the 2.7ohm? They don't have the 2.7. The stock ones say 10% anyway. I assume this means +/- 10%.

    I have a feeling this is leading to a full rebuild...

    I started out with the Polyswitches, found a bad resistor, might as well do all the resistors, might as well do the caps with the solder gun handy and I'm placing orders for parts anyway.

    This hobby is one big slippery slope!

    Partsconnexion has the 2.7 ohm mills,,I just ordered some this evening. Hope this helps,good luck
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    riglehart wrote: »
    Any harm in using a 2.4 or 2.5 in place of the 2.7ohm? They don't have the 2.7. The stock ones say 10% anyway. I assume this means +/- 10%.

    I have a feeling this is leading to a full rebuild...

    I started out with the Polyswitches, found a bad resistor, might as well do all the resistors, might as well do the caps with the solder gun handy and I'm placing orders for parts anyway.

    This hobby is one big slippery slope!


    Do the whole upgrade. I recommend Solen caps and Mills resistors. But if you want it to be ultra economical go with the Dayton's. The main thing is getting fresh new parts in there as the old electrolytics are probably way out of tolerance. Not to mention I'd be suspect of the one xover because of the burnt resistor.

    If you are going to keep the 11t's for awhile the more expensive Solens and Mills are certainly worth it. I might add the RD0 tweets will sound fantastic also. :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited May 2007
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    riglehart wrote: »
    Any harm in using a 2.4 or 2.5 in place of the 2.7ohm? They don't have the 2.7. The stock ones say 10% anyway. I assume this means +/- 10%.

    I would use a 2.5 since it's available.

    I have yet to see a Polk speaker pass thru this threshold with a X-over "out of tolerance", beings all it takes is a VOM to figure that out.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    dorokusai wrote: »
    I would use a 2.5 since it's available.

    I have yet to see a Polk speaker X-over "out of tolerance" and all it takes is a VOM.

    So you think the 20 year old electrolytics are still right on the money :confused:
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited May 2007
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    So you think that every >20yr electrolytic in the world should be replaced?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2007
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    FWIW,,the mills resistors are 3.50 each.

    Edit,, 3.50 is for the 12 watt,, the 5 watt is 2.15
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    dorokusai wrote: »
    So you think that every >20yr electrolytic in the world should be replaced?

    That is my quest to fill every land fill with 20+ year old "way out of tolerance" electrolytic caps. :D

    No, but we all know caps from today are generally better than the caps of 20 years ago. If he's going to start replacing other parts why not do them all. Also I'd suspect Polk didn't use the greatest parts at that time either.

    If he weren't tearing them apart already perhaps it wouldn't make as much sense.

    You wouldn't put new pistons in an engine and reuse the old worn piston rings?

    H9

    P.s. You type rather well while touching yourself!!!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • riglehart
    riglehart Posts: 276
    edited May 2007
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    test. I'm trying to repost the a pic.
    Jolida Tube
    Polk 11T, 7, 5, 5jr, 4
    Standard equip not worth bragging about.
  • riglehart
    riglehart Posts: 276
    edited May 2007
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    Ok. I'm going to do the whole works. I got the schematic from Doro's VERY NICE thread with schematics.

    Couple questions. The schematic shows 3 caps. 12uf electrolytic, 12uf mylar, and 34uf electrolytic.

    The 34uf looks like your run-of-the-mill electrolytic. Electrolytics need to be put in with a certain polarity and "mylar" doesn't matter? The pic below shows a 6.8 and 5.6 stacked to get 12.4uf (instead of 12uf) and the schematic says "electrolytic" for these. Can I replace these with a single Dayton/Solen polypropelene cap. Or do I need an electrolytic cap?

    In a recent thread someone said "dump the electolytics and get Solens". Does that mean electolytics can be replaced with regular?

    The picture is here...

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=644273&postcount=1



    Why can't I repost this picture??? The BBS says I already have it, but I can't figure out how to reuse it.
    Jolida Tube
    Polk 11T, 7, 5, 5jr, 4
    Standard equip not worth bragging about.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    riglehart wrote: »
    Ok. I'm going to do the whole works. I got the schematic from Doro's VERY NICE thread with schematics.

    Couple questions. The schematic shows 3 caps. 12uf electrolytic, 12uf mylar, and 34uf electrolytic.

    The 34uf looks like your run-of-the-mill electrolytic. Electrolytics need to be put in with a certain polarity and "mylar" doesn't matter? The pic below shows a 6.8 and 5.6 stacked to get 12.4uf (instead of 12uf) and the schematic says "electrolytic" for these. Can I replace these with a single Dayton/Solen polypropelene cap. Or do I need an electrolytic cap?

    In a recent thread someone said "dump the electolytics and get Solens". Does that mean electolytics can be replaced with regular?

    The picture is here...

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=644273&postcount=1



    Why can't I repost this picture??? The BBS says I already have it, but I can't figure out how to reuse it.


    The caps are all non-polarized. Mylar/Polyproylene are better than the more common electrolytics. They are completely innerchangeable, but I don't rec mixing them together. Get two 12 uF and one 34 uF and Mills resistors for each x-over.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    As far as the stacked caps.......I have no idea maybe someone has been in there before. I wasn't aware Polk was using Poly's back then. But who knows as there were so many different things used in Polk xovers over time. Since the schematic shows 12 uF I doubt the two stacked caps used in your x-over were factory issue.

    H9

    Does the other xover look the same?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited May 2007
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    That is my quest to fill every land fill with 20+ year old "way out of tolerance" electrolytic caps. :D

    No, but we all know caps from today are generally better than the caps of 20 years ago. If he's going to start replacing other parts why not do them all. Also I'd suspect Polk didn't use the greatest parts at that time either.

    If he weren't tearing them apart already perhaps it wouldn't make as much sense.

    You wouldn't put new pistons in an engine and reuse the old worn piston rings?

    H9

    P.s. You type rather well while touching yourself!!!

    I agree to a point. I believe in the benefit of upgraded components, just not the neccesity of them. Did you upgrade your components based on what you read or what you heard?

    I've rebuilt speakers, crossovers and gear in regards to components but that was more of a soul searching excercise. Was it an overall benefit? Yes. Again, I've never stated that it wasn't beneficial.

    However, it also had nothing to do with tolerance. The components weren't bad. All the components tested fine and within tolerance, it was either a simple upgrade or complete. Just because its a good idea doesn't mean that everything has to be upgraded, or that every component is suspect to scrutiny.

    I recently picked up another Anthem Pre-2L and promptly replaced the output stage caps based on a Dodd Audio mod performed on another unit a couple years ago. I'm happy but I was also happy before the upgrade but I knew the changes sonically and it was cheap enough to do. Does this mean every Anthem component needs to be upgraded? No, that's ridiculous.

    There are some upgrades that make sense and some that don't but that's personal, and I applaud that. I have an ever changing rig and inventory so crossover upgrades aren't at the top of my list.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,092
    edited May 2007
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    dorokusai wrote: »
    I agree to a point. I believe in the benefit of upgraded components, just not the neccesity of them. Did you upgrade your components based on what you read or what you heard?

    However, it also had nothing to do with tolerance. The components weren't bad. All the components tested fine and within tolerance,

    What I heard mostly and some encouragement from what I read. It is a personal thing and I have greatly appreciated the benefits. But I also mod my cars to get that extra ounce of performance. Mass market stuff is generally in the middle ground and I enjoy taking it part way or entirely to the next level.

    Caps do loose their ability to charge and discharge over time as when they were new and last I checked that couldn't be measured on a VOM

    We're on the same page. He's in there replacing parts so get 'er all done.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!