No More Power Conditioner?

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Early B.
Early B. Posts: 7,900
edited April 2006 in 2 Channel Audio
I recently purchased a cheap power conditioner to replace a Monster Power Center that I sold. I felt there was a veil over my music, so I plugged my gear directly into the wall and poof! -- the veil was lifted.

OK, so here's my question -- there are brownouts and blackouts all the time in my neighborhood. What type of protection against these issues is typically built into a tube amp and CDP? How much protection will the fuse in my amp afford me? Or should I forget about taking the risk and re-install a good power conditioner/surge protector?

Thanks.
HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

"God grooves with tubes."
Post edited by Early B. on
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited April 2006
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    You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't...

    Everything I've read on the subject is unless you're ready to spend a decent amount of cash it's protection and veiled sound, or no protection and unveiled sound. What you decide to give up is up to you. I thought I lost some dynamics when I was using a power conditioner. So recently, I made myself a beefy DIY power extension so basically all my gear is plugged into the wall. Now I only have my gear plugged in when I'm using it - the best protection you can have. I haven't had the time to do some listening comparisons between conditioner and DIY power strip...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    edited April 2006
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    Early
    Try only plugging the power amp into the wall, the rest into surge protection. Usually amps are affected the most by conditioners.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • szhleppy
    szhleppy Posts: 320
    edited April 2006
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    steveinaz wrote:
    Early
    Try only plugging the power amp into the wall, the rest into surge protection. Usually amps are affected the most by conditioners.

    My experience exactly. All but the amp are plugged into a Panamax 5510.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,856
    edited April 2006
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    Get a PS Audio UPC-200, used on Audiogon for about $350.00. Peace of mind and no veil.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Holydoc
    Holydoc Posts: 1,048
    edited April 2006
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    steveinaz wrote:
    Early
    Try only plugging the power amp into the wall, the rest into surge protection. Usually amps are affected the most by conditioners.

    I second that as well. My amp has his own little hookup. He does not like to share his toys.
    ;)
    Holydoc (Home Theatre Lover)
    __________________________________________
    Panasonic -50PX600U 50" Plasma
    Onkyo -TX-NR901 Receiver
    Oppo -Oppo 980HD Universal DVD Player
    Outlaw -770 (7x200watt) Amplifier
    PolkAudio - RTi12 (Left and Right)
    PolkAudio - CSi5 (Center)
    PolkAudio - FXi3 (Back and Surround)
    SVS - PB-12/Plus (Subwoofer)
    Bluejean Cables - Interconnects
    Logitech Harmony 880 - Remote
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,856
    edited April 2006
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    If a power conditioner/surge protector is causing problems with an amps performance, it isn't the right one for the job. You need one that allows for unrestricted high current.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited April 2006
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    Gonna try a TrippLite isolation transformer. I've had good success with TrippLite isobars in the past and a few Polkies around here use their line conditioners. I'm not ready to fork over $300 - $400 for surge protection.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited April 2006
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    I cannot speak out for or against any of the more mainstream conditioners in use as I'm only familiar with what I own. So, that being said, here is another avenue.

    I was afraid of creating a problem when I was looking at power conditioning for my main 2ch rig. I decided to stay away from having isolation transformers separating-filtering the amp section from the analog and digital sections of the conditioner. I'd read from different sources that sometimes this could result in certain frequency restrictions on the signal and I made a choice accordingly. I decided to use separate conditioners. One is a dedicated amp p/c just for my amps.
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited April 2006
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    F1nut wrote:
    Get a PS Audio UPC-200, used on Audiogon for about $350.00. Peace of mind and no veil.


    Is this one good for the amps?
    I just realized that my subs are not hitting as hard as they use to and I have them going through my p/c. I think this may be my problem.

    Can my amps (subs and main amp) be plugged into this unit? If so I will use my Panamax for everything else.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,856
    edited April 2006
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    Sky, works great with my he-man amp. Here's more info to help you decide, http://www.psaudio.com/products/upc200.asp
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited April 2006
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    Thanks for the link.
    I am reading right now.
    I am seriously wanting to add or replace my p/c right now and this just might be the ticket.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited April 2006
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    I have a couple of Tripplite LCR2400's and notice no veil with them. They offer brownout and spike protection.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited April 2006
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    I had been looking for an APC s15 but I don't want my amps unprotected.
    I am planning on plugging my amps into the wall tonight to see if I hear a difference.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited April 2006
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    Skynut wrote:
    I had been looking for an APC s15 but I don't want my amps unprotected.
    I am planning on plugging my amps into the wall tonight to see if I hear a difference.

    The API (Audio Power Industries) PowerWedge 110 is just for amps...
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited April 2006
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    I will look into those also.

    Thanks
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited April 2006
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    Early B. wrote:
    Gonna try a TrippLite isolation transformer. I've had good success with TrippLite isobars in the past and a few Polkies around here use their line conditioners. I'm not ready to fork over $300 - $400 for surge protection.

    Got it today. Sounds great, meaning -- it makes no sound at all, (i.e., no hum), and it doesn't seem to add any darkness to the music, either.

    So far, so good. Gonna do some critical listening tonight.

    For $45 NIB off ebay, it's hard to beat. Small, rectangular, black metal box around 20 lbs. See it here:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TRIPP-LITE-IS-500-FULL-ISOLATION-TRANSFORMER_W0QQitemZ9711916017QQcategoryZ32830QQcmdZViewItem
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • tommyboy
    tommyboy Posts: 1,414
    edited April 2006
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    sorry to be the dumbass out of the group, but here goes. are you guys saying that the amp is affected only by the "power conditioner" or that everything including the amp is hooked up to one surge protecter

    In other words, am I better off getting just a surge protecter without any line conditioner?


    The monster ones are just surge protecters up to 80 bucks, then from there up are "line conditioners". I wouldn't spend more than 100 dollars on one just because my system isn't that great and not worth it
    AVR: H/K AVR240
    Fronts: Monitor 50s
    Center: CSI3
    surrounds: R15s
    Sub:Velodyne DPS10
    Dvd/Cd: Samsung HD upconverter (for now)
    TV: 50" Sammy Plasma
    game hardware: 360 and gcn.
    Gamertag: kovster27
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited April 2006
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    Surge rotectors are to protect against surges.

    Line conditioners are to remove electrical noises from the power lines.

    Apparently if you do not have the right power/line conditioner for your equipment it will have a bad effect.

    Example: I hooked all my equipment through my power conditioner and after a couple of movies I realized my sub was not hitting as hard as it used to. I read this thread and decided to run my subs straigt from the wall and the power was back.

    I never realized how the conditioner could hold the equipment back.

    Now I am going to try F1nut's sugestion for PS Audio UPC-200.
    It will be in the very near future that I will buy a couple of these for my amp duties.
    Skynut
    SOPA® Founder
    The system Almost there
    DVD Onkyo DV-SP802
    Sunfire Theater Grand II
    Sherbourn 7/2100
    Panamax 5510 power conditioner (for electronics)
    2 PSAudio UPC-200 power conditioners (for amps)
    Front L/R RT3000p (Bi-Wired)
    Center CS1000p (Bi-Wired) (under the television)
    Center RT2000p's (Bi-Wired) (on each side of the television)
    Sur FX1000
    SVS ultra plus 2

    www.ShadetreesMachineShop.com
    Thanks for looking
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