2.3TL Acquired!! Need Receiver advice.

riglehart · March 2006

I just acquires some 2.3TLs. Now I need a better receiver than my old Yamaha rx-v850 to drive 'em. I can't afford seperates right now, but will get something with Preouts for future expansion. I will be watching movies and listening to Music on this system. About $1000 is my limit.

Here's what I have it narrowed down to.

Harmon Kardon AVR 7300.
or
NAD T763

I am partial to NAD but can't find a dealer around Iowa City that actually stocks them. So started poking around and ran across the HK. I'm not big on bells and whistles. I mostly want solid performance.

Anyone out there with experience with both NAD and HK?

TroyD · March 2006

You can do better than a receiver for under a grand if you don't mind used gear.

Just a quick peruse of audiogon:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1147038075

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1146550680

These two bring you in at 1100....you can do better on price but I'm just trying to illustrate a point.
BDT

riglehart · March 2006

I don't want to mess with used stuff unless I can demo it first.

Dennis Gardner · March 2006

It really does depend on your movie/music usage. The NAD or HK you indicate will be adequate for both uses, but the SDAs do really have the ability to produce great 2 channel music with a proper amp/preamp rig. Troy's suggestions are based on what many others (me too) have realized after experiencing how SDA seems to ask for better 2 channel gear.

I used the HK 7200 with my SDAs for a couple months until I got a tube preamp and my Odyssey Stratos and frankly the sound quality was so great that the HK is now used strictly for processing the surround channels. The HK was a true upgrade over my JVC just as the NAD or HK would be over your Yamaha, but knowing what I do now, I would have actually gone with a lesser used 5.1 receiver since I ended up seeking a more refined 2 channel sound since my speakers seemed to beg for it.

Just my experience....

TroyD · March 2006

If that's the case, I'm not going to say that you are wasting your time (as it's your gear not mine) but I will say that you won't be hearing what they are really capable of.

BDT

BobMcG · March 2006

A grand will go one heck of a lot further power and value wise in the used amp category as opposed to the new rcvr category. There are a lot of good sellers out there too. If you're really not comfortable with it I understand but it's a shame because it narrows down your options. (Some very good options at that.)

riglehart · March 2006

OK. I have never even considered seperates. And, I have never even heard anything with tubes. However, I hear people rave about both. The problem with seperates is that you have to basically drop dime and jump in with both feet all at once. You can't really do it incrementally, because a preamp does you no good without amps. And amps do no good without preamps.

I can go into a high end audio store and listen to systems, but it's always apples vs oranges because of the infinite combinations and conditions. So, you never REALLY know what the differences are between equipment.

I have a crappy sony 5.1 receiver/speaker package I got at the megastore for movies right now. It has no preouts (not that I'd use them). I also have a yamaha rx-v850 which is decent (85wpc), but is from before they had 5.1 or digital inputs (it does have Dolby and center channel). However, it does have 2 preouts on it that might fascilitate a 2 channel system setup. I also have some polk 4s and 11Ts. Is there a good way I'm not aware of to maybe spend $1000 and make a good full featured system out of this stuff.

That being said. If I gave you a $1000 budget to buy me something to watch movies with and jam with Steve Perry, Satriani, or Bach what would you suggest?

Should I get a couple high quality amps to drive the 2.3s and use my yamaha as a source until I can do better?

Ricardo · March 2006

you asked. If I had your $1000, I would by a pre amp with HT pass through and a good 200WPC (at least) amp. The HT pass through will let you pass the signal from the two pre outs in the receiver through the preamp and amp for movies, and only use the preamp for 2 channel. I would buy used. I also was not comfortable with buying used before, but I've learned that here or Audiogon you can get very good used gear. Just watch the seller's feedback. With a grand you'll be able to get a VERY good combo.

BobMcG · March 2006

Sorry, didn't realize you couldn't use your current HT rcvr as a preamp.

Under the guide lines you've established, and a $1000 budget for HT and 2ch? Sounds like recvr territory to me. Not my place to offer advice on one. Haven't owned one in twenty-five years and not being my cup of tea I read very little about them. Others will have good possibilities for you though. Good luck with the setup.

schwarcw · March 2006

+1 on what HTRookie said. I started with an inexpensive Marantz HT receiver (110 wpc) to power my system. I have 2.3's as my fronts and SDA-2's in the rear, and a CSi40 for the center (SVS sub also). This setup powered the system pretty well. I saved up some cash and bought a Parasound Halo A 21 (250 wpc) used. I use the front preouts on the receiver into the Halo for HT and two channel listening. Wow! This was a major sound improvement! For two channel listening the SDA effect is terrific! SDA's really shine with high power. More detail, large soundstage.

Check out accessories4less.com. They have some nice B-stock equipment with manufacturer's full warranty for cheap.

Good luck and welcome to the Forum!

AsSiMiLaTeD · March 2006

It's not that the SDAs will sound bad with the receiver, there's just a lot you'll be missing out on.

If you have a decent receiver with pre-outs, I'd just buy a separate amp and run them through that amp and your current receiver - and add a preamp further down the road. Your money spent on a good 2 channel amp is going to go further than that same amount spent on a receiver...even a NAD.

AsSiMiLaTeD · March 2006

Should I get a couple high quality amps to drive the 2.3s and use my yamaha as a source until I can do better?

Didn't see that before...

Yes, that would be the route to go. If you buy a receiver now with that money, you're maybe 75% there in terms of sound quality, but you'll still have to buy another preamp and amp to get all the way there. If you buy a good amp now and use your current receiver as a source, then you're still 75% there, but you'll only need to buy a good preamp to close the gap, as you already have the good amp...hope that makes sense...

MrBuhl · March 2006

I have a set up under a $1000 that would fit your bill - not sure it meets with everyone's approval but it works:

HK AVR 20II (older ProLogic or 5.1 reciever but has preout for everything) = used about $150 (i bought it new six or 8 years ago for $275 I think)
Audire Model 1 Amp = used about $165 w/shipping - it was a good deal but you can get a similar SS amp about 100-125WPC for $200-300 all day if you are patient.

There you go. $440. I am still looking for a tube preamp but the HK covers me fine for now. It's not 5.1 or 6.1 or whatever else is out there but it's still a fine sounding rig that I can upgrade a piece at a time.

JMO

Ed

riglehart · March 2006

Ok. So you guys have me thinking I should stick with my current yamaha for now and spend my money on amplification from the 2 channel preouts.

capecodder · March 2006

Completely agree with used equipment approach. I have bought used gear for 30 years (want ads, demo units, buy backs after upgrades at stereo stores, ebay, and now mostly yard sales) and have rarely not come out FAR ahead of the deal. For the most part people take care of their equipment (although a few pieces of mine did get a little "over used" during college). Do some research on what you want and then go looking. S--t, if I had the internet two decades ago to search for stuff, my system then would have been killer!

I won't put in specific ideas for equipment 'cause other guys in this forum are much more knowledgeble than I.

schwarcw · March 2006

riglehart wrote:

Ok. So you guys have me thinking I should stick with my current yamaha for now and spend my money on amplification from the 2 channel preouts.

Yes sir! I think your wallet and ears would be best served with that plan. there's a lot of decent used and B-stock stuff out there. Do some research, check out the 2 channel amps you can buy for a few hundred dollars, look at their specs, ask Forum members and others what they think.

The search tool on this Forum is a good tool. Play with it, there is a wealth of opinion in these threads.

Welcome to the Forum!

Carl

riglehart · March 2006

How about an NAD 2200? These were great amps. There's a guy in the flea market with one.

Is there any problem with buying equipment that old (20 yrs)? I don't want something that is on the verge of crapping out.

schwarcw · March 2006

That NAD is a nice amp. George Grand is an old timer here and a good reputation.

TroyD also had a nice Onkyo for sale a couple of weeks ago. That amp has a little more power and is also a very good unit. I don't know if it's still available, checkout the link: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37843

Carl

riglehart · March 2006

OK. So I bought the NAD 2200 from George. My budget was $1000. Here's my next question. With those 2.3TL I don't plan on any parties or ridiculously loud volume levels. Just quality one on one listening. At that price (around $200) I can get another one on ebay and run dual bridged NAD 2200s.

Is that going to buy me anything other than a lot more volume? Or will even the lower volumes sound a lot crisper?

schwarcw · March 2006

Rigelhart,

You will need an A1-1 interconnect cable in order to run two amps bridged. Did you get one with the speakers? This is not the ordinary interconnect cable, it has a "black box" about 2 1/2" cube sized in the middle of the cable. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but you need it to use non common ground (bridged) amps with the SDA's.

Two amps will get you a little more volume. It should get you more detail in the music at low volume levels. Try the one NAD first, see how you like it. If you have the A1-1 cable you can always get another amp.

Carl

schwarcw · March 2006

Here's what the A1-1 looks like: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11445&highlight=A1-1

Carl

Dennis Gardner · March 2006

Congrats on the buy from GG, his "Magic Closet" has provided alot of great sound here on CP.

I would "wait and hear" the 2200 alone. You may really find the NAD to be all you need and the $$$ could be put into a tube preamp or other areas of your HT to make more impact than a second amp. Personally, I have always had the belief that if I needed to bridge an amp to get more power, I needed a bigger amp. This is due to bridged amps not beng stable into low impedance loads after bridging.

audiobliss · March 2006

Congrats on the NAD2200. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

I think I would personally spend some money on a nice 2-channel preamp before buying another amp, though that would also be a good move. Instead of briding the two 2200's, I would just bi-amp the SDA's. Meaning, I would power the highs on both speakers with one amp, and then the lows on both speakers with one amp. That way, neither are bridged and so they will be able to put out more current.

However, I also like Dennis Gardner's idea. If you need to bridge or add a second amp, I'd probably rather look into getting a stouter amp. Then you can start working on a second rig centered around your 2200!

2.3TL Acquired!! Need Receiver advice.

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