LSi's and Onkyo

kmartin971 · January 2006

Cinema Grand Signature 400~seven

400 watts rms continuous per channel, all channels driven into eight ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.5% T.H.D.
800 watts rms per channel into four ohms
1600 watts rms per channel into two ohms - time-limited basis
Two output options for the main left and right channels: current source for a warmer, more open tube sound or voltage source for all the tight response this awesome solid state amplifier can deliver
Intrinsic frequency response 1 Hz to 80 kHz
Signal present auto-on switch senses input signal on any channel and automatically powers up
12VDC trigger input with 1/8" mini jacks as well as plug-in screw-terminal strip
Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA inputs
High-quality gold-plated all metal five-way binding posts
Five-year parts and labor warranty

audiobliss · January 2006

"Now thar's an ayump!" A good ol' Sunfire. I'd love to have one of those one day. Absolutely amazing specs. Doubles it's output down to two ohms. The stereo amps double their output all the way down to one ohm! :eek: And I've only heard good things about Sunfire.

kmartin971 · January 2006

Sunfire

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5857231283&fromMakeTrack=true

m-rorem · January 2006

audiobliss wrote:

"Now thar's an ayump!" A good ol' Sunfire. I'd love to have one of those one day. Absolutely amazing specs. Doubles it's output down to two ohms. The stereo amps double their output all the way down to one ohm! :eek: And I've only heard good things about Sunfire.

Yes great spec's good reputation, but now he's getting into some pretty serious $ even used. If your willing to spend this kind of $ you have many many many options available to you. Also, remember that for any amplifier to meet those kind of specifications they will most certainly have to have a dedicated 20 amp circuit available to them.

mrorem

audiobliss · January 2006

Kinda seems inconsistent, I know. But when you combine the fact that Audiosource didn't specify the conditions under which they measured that 0.2% THD with the fact that it doesn't come close to doubling power when the resistance halfs, you don't get a pretty picture.

With the Sunfire, the THD is rated full-bandwidth (20Hz-20kHz...that is full-bandwidth, right?) with all channels driven (and that's 7 instead of 2!) at 400 watts per channel. AND it doubles its output all the way to 2 ohms. Looks like a much, much more solid amp.

audiobliss · January 2006

m-rorem wrote:

Yes great spec's good reputation, but now he's getting into some pretty serious $ even used.

Good point. It's also backed up by that ebay add...$4500...and it's only 200wpc! :eek:

kmartin971 · January 2006

The AS only had two amps! lol~!

m-rorem · January 2006

kmartin971 wrote:

Sunfire

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5857231283&fromMakeTrack=true

The Cinema Grand IV pre-pro has had mixed reviews, it is a definite step up from the previous generations, but for the $ that it demands you can do better. Also it's 19" (pro) form factor doesn't appeal to everyone, hope your equip rack can handle it.

I have not personally auditioned sufire products in quite some time, so I can't comment on their performance only what I have read from other discussions.

mrorem

audiobliss · January 2006

kmartin971 wrote:

The AS only had two amps! lol~!

Not sure what you're saying there.

kmartin971 · January 2006

Read the comment above. The AS 300 only comes in two channel. You would have to buy multiple pairs.

PS - The audio closet has two dedicated circuits - a 110 and a 220

kmartin971 · January 2006

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The AS only comes in two channels.

AMP300 Specifications
Power Bandwidth 20Hz-20kHz:
150W per CH into 8 ohm loads with less than 0.2% THD+N
235W per CH into 4 ohm loads with less than 0.2% THD+N
470W Bridged Mono into 8 ohms with less than 0.2% THD+N
Crosstalk: >65dB @ 1kHz, ref. to rated power into 8 ohms
Frequency Response: (20Hz to 20kHz)+0.0dB, -0.5dB
Signal to Noise ratio: -103dB ref. to rated power into 4 ohms
AC Power Consumption: 1200W (all channels driven)
Net Weight: 28.6 lbs (13.0 kgs)
Gross Weight: 36.5 lbs (16.6 kgs)

audiobliss wrote:

Kinda seems inconsistent, I know. But when you combine the fact that Audiosource didn't specify the conditions under which they measured that 0.2% THD with the fact that it doesn't come close to doubling power when the resistance halfs, you don't get a pretty picture.

With the Sunfire, the THD is rated full-bandwidth (20Hz-20kHz...that is full-bandwidth, right?) with all channels driven (and that's 7 instead of 2!) at 400 watts per channel. AND it doubles its output all the way to 2 ohms. Looks like a much, much more solid amp.

audiobliss · January 2006

I'm sorry for being so obtuse, but I'm not seeing the fault in my comparison. Somebody fill me in.

kmartin971 · January 2006

If you buy multiple AS amps the rating will stay the same. AS 300 runs about $400 for 2 channels.

m-rorem · January 2006

audiobliss wrote:

I'm sorry for being so obtuse, but I'm not seeing the fault in my comparison. Somebody fill me in.

You disagreed with him! That's the fault! (LOL)

Just kidding of course.

Unfortunately all too many people get wrapped up in the spec's and don't take the time to audition before they part with $. Then again, this trend is what provides the "savy" pre-owned buyer a good selection of product to choose from, so I say keep it up america!

mrorem

kmartin971 · January 2006

I auditioned the LSi many times before buying. I will do the same with my equipment.

audiobliss · January 2006

kmartin971 wrote:

If you buy multiple AS amps the rating will stay the same. AS 300 runs about $400 for 2 channels.

Ok, specify what 'rating' you're talking about, and I think we'll be on the same page.

kmartin971 · January 2006

THD rating - the AS 300 was also rated at full bandwidth. Re-read your post above #67.

audiobliss · January 2006

Right. The THD rating of 0.02% will be the same across the board, no matter how many AS amps you buy. But I fail to see how that is relevant the comparison I was making earlier.

kmartin971 · January 2006

Your post implies that if you increase/decrease the number of channels the distotion level will increase. Re-read 67.

kmartin971 · January 2006

So I assume you are not for stacking the AS 300? 235WPC?

LSi25 Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 300 w/channel
(Keep in mind the woofer already has its own amp)

LSiC Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel

LSiFX Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel

Seems that should be sufficient.

audiobliss · January 2006

Sorry if my post implied that, didn't mean for it too at all. I was trying to say that the Sunfire was subjected to a lot more stress for testing than the AS (7 channels opposed to 2, full-bandwidth rating opposed to who knows what, and driven at full power as opposed to who knows what). Considering that and the fact that it is obviously very high current (doubles output down to 2 ohms) whereas the AS isn't (goes from 150@8 to 235@4), I deem the Sunfire to be a much superior amp.

And I still think no one should use the AS in a home audio environment.

EDIT - However, that is only my humble opinion. Treat it as such.

audiobliss · January 2006

kmartin971 wrote:

So I assume you are not for stacking the AS 300? 235WPC?

LSiC Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel

LSiFX Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel

Seems that should be sufficient.

But what about the LSi25's? That's what I've had in mind all this time. They'll handle 300 watts, and I'd give it to them.

kmartin971 · January 2006

I agree. But the Sunfire is 5k and 8 channels of AS can be had for 1200-1400.

kmartin971 · January 2006

The LSi25 can be split. Whats left is an LSi9 (Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel ). The 10" woofer already has a seperate dedicated amp.

audiobliss · January 2006

Great point. So scratch both the AS and the Sunfire and look into Parasound, Rotel, B&K, Carver, Adcom, NAD, etc. And don't forget Cinenova. I've heard a good bit of great stuff about them here lately.

kmartin971 · January 2006

Why would you not use AS? Just curious. I think its interesting that you would not use As in the home when thats all they do.

kmartin971 · January 2006

I have lots more homework to do

Thanks!

audiobliss · January 2006

Because, IIRC, it's regarded to be of the same quality as a PA amp, the specs don't rule out that view, and you can do better for the money on the used market. Start looking into amps from Parasound, B&K, Carver, Rotel, Adcom, Cinenova, NAd, etc. You could do great on amplification with something from any of those manufacturers for the same or less money, I'd bet.

But, bottom of the line, use your ears. And for sure don't take what we say (me in particular!

) for granted. Rely on your research and your ears. And enjoy!

kmartin971 · January 2006

I am going to look at parasound next!

Dennis Gardner · January 2006

kmartin971 wrote:

Why would you not use AS? Just curious.

I would match quality of the speakers with quality of the amp. Some nice mid-fi brands that others here on the forum use are......Parasound, Rotel, Outlaw ATI, Odyssey all have nice lineups that would give your receiver the needed relief.

LSi's and Onkyo

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