HT question: Mantis, anybody...

jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
edited August 2002 in Electronics
I'm not really that "into" home theater. I have a four-year-old son, and about the only movies we ever get to see are Blue's Clues or Bob the Builder, etc. (He does have Atlantis though, which makes pretty good use of my system, and A Bug's Life isn't bad).

Anyway here's my question: For a guy who doesn't care that much about HT, I have a decent one. I've got a Denon 3801/RT800i's/CS400i/RT3's/PSW1200 and I recently set my old CS175i up as a back-surround. In the Denon's set-up menu, there's a setting that says "DTS-ES/6.1 surround source auto", and there's a choice of ON or OFF. I've left it set to OFF. If I switch it ON, it then gives me another choice that says " Non-flag source output" and choices of 5CH or 7CH. Can someone explain what those settings do for me?

When in DD or DTS mode, through the "surround parameter" button, I have a choice of Matrix or Non-Matrix for the back surround. I'm pretty sure I understand what Matrix does: It derives a back-surround channel from the rear channels, for use with non-6.1 encoded material. But what if I set it to Non-Matrix? There's still sound coming from the back-surround speaker, even on material that doesn't have a discrete back-surround channel. I'm not sure I've even got anything that is 6.1. Is Atlantis?

Anybody shed a little light on this stuff for me? I have a pretty good handle on the terminology and such, but the Denon manual is not very clear on this stuff.

Thanks,
Jason
Post edited by jcaut on

Comments

  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    In the Denon's set-up menu, there's a setting that says "DTS-ES/6.1 surround source auto", and there's a choice of ON or OFF. I've left it set to OFF. If I switch it ON, it then gives me another choice that says " Non-flag source output" and choices of 5CH or 7CH.
    I'm going to take a stab at this. The "DTS-ES/6.1 surround source auto" tells the processor to automatically switch to 6.1 decoding when it senses 6.1 source material. This only works with DVD's released after late 2001. The "flag" is what tells the processor to switch to DD EX mode. So the "non-flag source output" setting is for DD EX DVD's released before late 2001. I guess it could also apply to normal 5.1 DVD's since they wouldn't have a flag either.

    As for the "surround parameter" option, I'm not entirely sure. Remember that there are two DTS 6.1 formats, one with a matrixed rear center and one with a discrete rear center. I believe DD 6.1 only matrixed. So, I'm guessing this option is for DTS 6.1 only. I dunno.

    Aaron
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    Thanks, Aaron.
    That's basically what I had decided, about the "auto" thing. So if I understand correctly, it's really just a convenience thing. I can leave it set to "off" and still select 6.1 surround manually, right?

    I could leave it set for 6.1 surround with the back surround set to "Matrix", and I'd get "quasi 6.1" from any DD or DTS source. ?

    Jason
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    I can leave it set to "off" and still select 6.1 surround manually, right?
    I guess. That's what it sounds like to me. I think I'd probably turn on the auto setting and have everything else decoded (matrixed) into "7.1."

    I could leave it set for 6.1 surround with the back surround set to "Matrix", and I'd get "quasi 6.1" from any DD or DTS source. ?
    I guess. You're probably going to have to play around with all the combinations of those settings to find out what does what. I don't understand why you're getting sound out of the rear center when the flag detection is off and your mode is set to non-matrixed.

    As you can tell, I'm far from an expert on this, especially since I don't have a Denon.

    Aaron
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    Like I said above, I don't watch enough real movies to justify being worried about it. I was just curious about what, exactly, those settings do. Thanks for the help.

    Jason
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited August 2002
    jcaut, damn nice system for not caring! way to go.

    Get Toy Story 1&2... me and my 2 year old were totally entertained. Cartoons in DD 5.1... I'd like to see the old looney toones in that format.
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    Sounds like you guys got it covered nicely....Yes Aaron is correct on his guess(nice work Brotha).
    there isn't alot of material in 6.1...most is in 5.1..matrix isn't a bad idea..you can fool around with the Denon and see what you like best.I like to watch as it was recorded I don't use the Matrix feature.
    You shouldn't hear anything from the surround back channel unless it's matrix or descrete.If you turned off matrix for 5.1 sources it should be off.Alantis might be matrix 5.1 Dolby doesn't use discrete 6.1.DTS does.
    Where your questions answered?If not let me know And I can go into better detail.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    I think that answered my questions. I don't really get much of an opportunity to mess with it. I need to rent some DVD's and do some listening. Thanks for the help!

    Jason
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    Thats cool man,
    you'll learn alot about it that way.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Thats cool man,you'll learn alot about it that way.
    there isn't alot of material in 6.1...most is in 5.1..matrix

    Is that right?
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    Your reading it wrong..I was talking about the Matrix ability of the Denon.
    OK...DTS 6.1 comes decrete,all channels have there own info.
    Dolby Digital comes 5.1 matrix 6.1,the info is carried with the left and right surrounds,then extracted form the channel into the surround back.
    You can search online for 6.1 and 5.1 matrix titles,there are some but no where near as many as regular 5.1 dd or dts.
    Thats what I meant..sorry to confuse you or anyone else.My fingers type slower thenmy thoughts.....or the other way around...or..one of those things.:)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • scottvampscottvamp Posts: 3,297
    edited August 2002
    If you have your reciever setup for a full time "Matrixed" 6.1 then basically every single 5.1 movie you watch is in the matrixed format. Which is exactly what DD EX is. Your reciever does the whole matixed process for you. I have watched Resident Evil a couple of times already and the surrounds are done so well that I could swear that it is a 6.1 soundtrack. Benifits of a well adjusted 6.1 setup. DTS ES IS a discret 6 channel format but not a whole lot a DVD's out there yet. :cool:
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....:rolleyes:
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    Almost correct,
    except the surround ex or THX surround ex recorded disks contain a 6th track send down the suround channels,then pulled out with the matrix decoder.The Matrix feature in the Denon takes the information from the exsisting channels,when they send the same signal,the decoder sends this to the surround back channel or channels........very close to the same exact thing with the exception of a channel of info or a pulled out of exsisiting info.........
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • scottvampscottvamp Posts: 3,297
    edited August 2002
    mantis, sounds good to me. I'm not sure about the the cross decoding but I do know the final outcome of sound and I like it.:D
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....:rolleyes:
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    cool...me 2
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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