dvd-audio thru digital cables

mldennisonmldennison Posts: 307
edited August 2002 in Electronics
so i have a question for all the techie's out there:
i just purchased a panasonic rp-91 dvd-a player a couple of weeks ago. i have not yet gone out to get the analog cables for all 6 channels so right now i jsut have it hook up to my reciever via an optical cable. my reciever is a denon 3802.

i just purchased my first dvd-a disc the other day...the grateful dead's "american beauty" which has a 2 channel and 6 channel track both at 24b/96k. however when i put the disc in i only hear 2 channels regardless of what track i listen to. i looked on a faq somewhere and it said for copyright purposes and bandwidth issues, that all the information cannot be passed digitally, which elplains the lack of the surround channels.

my question then is what am i listening to? am i getting 2 channels of 24b/96k or is it downsampling before it gets to the reciever? and what happened to the other 4 channels, are they cut somewhere along the way? is there anyway i can change things other than getting the analog cables?
Post edited by mldennison on

Comments

  • rskarvanrskarvan Banned Posts: 2,456
    edited July 2002
    You must have qty=6 analog cables.
    You are listenting to your Denon 3802's digital-to-analog converter. You might as well be listening to the disk through any budget cd player with a digital out. There is NO benefit of dvd-audio in your setup.

    The good d/a converter resides inside your DVD-A player.
    You need to hook up all 6 cables and use the EXT-IN on your 3802 to hear the six channels of discrete audio. Don't be a putz. Buy the cables.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited July 2002
    buy the cables today.....you are not hearing the format.....
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • jmasterjjmasterj Posts: 327
    edited August 2002
    You could be getting two channels of 96khz/24bits in a stereo mix,
    the DVD-Audio disc I have contain both. Some DVD-AUDIO disc will play on a DVD-AUDIO or DVD-VIDEO players. They can also have 5.1 mixes split between "audience" and "stage" perspectives. Get the audio cables as soon as you can, Check out
    www.aixrecords.com have them send you the sampler it contains
    all the previously mentioned information.
    JmasterJ Polk to the Death
  • mldennisonmldennison Posts: 307
    edited August 2002
    jmasterj,
    that is along the lines of what i was thinking, it seemed strange to me that they would put a LPF /downsampler in the dvd player but i may be wrong. anyway, i guess i am going to go get these cables this weekend so i can hear what all the fuss is about.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited August 2002
    Ok, maybe I'm off topic, I hope not.

    I have a Panny A310, and an Onkyo TX dig-ready receiver in the HT rig. I use the 5.1 out on the dvd player (built in dd and dts) to the 5.1 in on the rec. DD and DTS play fine, but something that has always bugged me is this....

    I have the 'Falling Down' dvd. The dvd does not claim 'dd or dts' formats, but does say 'Dolby surround'. There are NO audio setup options on the dvd itself, and when I watch it, it plays in stereo. Should I not get at least a 'prologic' decoding? I have the same movie on VHS, and it plays in prologic.

    Do I have to have a second connection? A 'stereo' connection (vs the 6 analog cables) to another input on the rec to make this click? So far, its only been this one older dvd, but it has sparked my curiousity.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    This is talking out my back side with no "real world experience":rolleyes: ......you may need to pass the signal through the optical connection to get the prologic......
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited August 2002
    Well, no optical in on this rec, I got it what, 5, 6 years ago, whenever DTS first hit the market.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    That shot my theory all to hell.....
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • hoosier21hoosier21 Posts: 4,396
    edited August 2002
    I think it should play Prologic hooked up like you have it, even if it was just a stereo signal. Can you force the receiver to use DolbyPro by hitting DolbyPro on the remote whenit is playing?

    Maybe Mantis can help you out on this one.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Maybe Mantis can help you out on this one.

    Ohhhhhhh man.......this could be a lot of fun:D
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited August 2002
    Nascarmann, I think your theory holds water, just doesn't apply to my specific situation.

    Hoosier, thats what I was thinking too, except for the fact that the only audio connection from the dvd to rec is via 5.1 direct out/in. Maybe if the rec is only getting the signal on the left/right mains (with the multi-ch input selected), thats what it pushes out.

    Hey, Ht guru I am not, I'll take whatever thoughts I can get on this matter..... ;)

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited August 2002
    I'm a little confused on how you are connected up Russman...
    My dvd has optical which is PCM and an RCA out which is also for PCM also and both are AC3. There are also analogue line level L/R out as well but using this will not be digital 5.1 or even Prologic II... if I configure this way I have to use the logic 7 feature of the h/k or Prologic emulation but will not be discreet between dvd and rcvr just simulated from the rcvr.

    I may not be understanding something about my own system but I just figured digital is digital and alalogue is analogue.
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    I'm not sure either, but there might be some setting in the DVD player's setup menu to have the player "downmix" either Pro-Logic or regular stereo.

    The more I think about it though, I think that would only apply to material that was 5.1 in the first place. (isn't that what they mean by "downmix")

    I don't know. Just a thought.

    Jason
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    HBomb,
    I think what you're missing is that Russ' DVD player has built in DD/DTS decoding, so he's not using a decoder in his receiver, but the one in the player.

    If you already realized that, then pardon my intrusion...

    Jason
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited August 2002
    jcaut, maybe I'm missing something for sure but did not Russ say it was Dolby Surround not Dolby Digital? Its just 2 channel on the disk and the dvd player does not simulate 5.1 discreet in either PCM or analogue left/right. If it were dolby digital 2 channel then the receiver would recognize this and automatically switch to ProLogic II... would it not? Many direct tv programs are in DD 2 channel and my h/k does this all the time... ony 2 discreet channels and simulate 5.1 from that.

    I don't know but I'm gettting even more confused over here so forgive me.
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • jcautjcaut Posts: 1,863
    edited August 2002
    Heck I'm completely confused myself.:p
    If it were dolby digital 2 channel then the receiver would recognize this and automatically switch to ProLogic II... would it not?
    I don't think so, 'cause I don't think his receiver has that capability.

    I think there are two issues here:

    1) whether or not the DVD player is capable of passing a matrixed, Pro-logic-decodable signal out its 5.1 channel outputs

    2) whether or not it is possible for the digital surround-ready receiver to apply any processing (Pro-logic decoding) to a signal being fed to the 5.1 channel analog inputs.

    I don't know about #1, but I'm pretty sure #2 won't work. I think most of the time the 5.1 channel inputs bypass any additional processing. I bet that to get Pro Logic decoding from a non-5.1-channel Dolby surround disc, a seperate stereo connection will have to be made from the regular L&R out on the player to a regular stereo input on the receiver.


    But I'm far from being a HT guru, and I may be totally incorrect on this.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited August 2002
    Tough topic..... I'm going to leave this 1 for the experts but I'll keep tracking this post because its interesting.

    HBomb Out
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited August 2002
    "I think most of the time the 5.1 channel inputs bypass any additional processing. I bet that to get Pro Logic decoding from a non-5.1-channel Dolby surround disc, a seperate stereo connection will have to be made from the regular L&R out on the player to a regular stereo input on the receiver."

    This makes sense to me, but I'm interested to hear more thoughts....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited August 2002
    I think the l/r will let u use prologic but not prologic II or 5.1.

    Again just a thought but thats seams how my system responds
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • hoosier21hoosier21 Posts: 4,396
    edited August 2002
    Bingo, you are correct, I forgot about that, the 5.1 input is a "straight through" input. you are a patch cord away.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    Bingo, you are correct, I forgot about that, the 5.1 input is a "straight through" input. you are a patch cord away.
    I would agree.

    Aaron
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    OK,
    the 6 channel input is a pass only.The Pro logic circuit has no meaning there.
    I see you guys figured it out anyway....very cool...
    But running a pair of line level analog to the dvd input would allow you to use the processing,for that movie...which is a classic one of my favorites.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,335
    edited August 2002
    Pro logic is a analog Dsp mode not a format...it takes a stereo signal and makes it appear to have discrete rear channels...It works ok but at times can be hooky.Just like DTS Neo:6
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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