It's not upgraditus, I swear!

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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by phuz
    Be careful with the upgraditis. You might like the LSis so much, that you end up redoing your home theater system with em. ;)

    Great point. That's why I'm avoiding the LSI's like the plague. I don't even want to look at them. :D
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by Zero
    Just be careful in what seperates you move 'up' to. Those HK stereo receivers sport a better sound than many affordable seperate's....

    My advice; stay away from the likes of AMC, Adcom, or Carver, if you want to get a worthwhile improvement. (Hey, I dont have anything against ANY of those brands, just giving advice based off of cold hard experience).

    Actually Zero you're right on with the first part. I think and still think for the $ H/K is the best. For receivers.

    HOwever after I hooked up my 2 adcoms to the 7.1 pre-outs I noticed an immediate difference. An immediate improvement. BUT- everyone's ears are different.
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    ^ What he said!

    I have a HK 3480 2 channel receiver like they are talking about here. I also some old Adcom seperates, a GTP-400 tuner/pre-amp and GFA-535 power amp, and to say the new HK stereo receiver is better is a looong reach. Granted, it's not a night and day kind of difference by any means. I really like the HK3480, especially when you get them for less than $200 refurbed, but the old Adcom seperates have clearly better sounding sonics IMO.
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by 2+2
    [Crossed fingers]

    I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;

    [Uncrossed fingers]

    Peace out

    You are forgiven! Somehow, now the punishment seems WAY too severe for the crime!
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by Polkmaniac
    Well, I did this with the RTi150s I had for a while. They're not the RTi12s, but they're pretty damn close, close enough that I'd get the same results with the 12s.

    I did the test with my Denon 3801, and it had a much harder time driving the LSi than it did the 150s - hands down.

    Your results were different than mine, doesn't mean either is wrong. There are too many variables involved to state conclusively one way or the other - i.e. my results with a HK might be different since they do a better job of driving 4 ohm loads...

    My original point wasn't that one result is ultimate truth, just that factors other than power handling and number of drivers need to be taken into account...

    Funny, I had the exact opposite situation on a Denon AVR-3802. It could drive the LSi9 just fine in 2 channel direct mode for extended periods at loud volume levels, but the big monster RTi speakers shut it down under the same scenerio.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    LSI's... they're purrrty...

    NO! STOP! MUST...FIGHT...UPGRADITIS!!! :eek:
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Resistance is futile. Just let it happen and go with it!
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :mad:

    I'll never turn to the darkside! :mad:
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Yes you will! It's inevitable.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    NO! YOU FAILED MARKER! I AM AN RTI GUY! LIKE MY FATHER BEFORE ME! ;)
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Time will tell. Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint young grasshopper.
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  • michael_w
    michael_w Posts: 2,813
    edited July 2005
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    just wait.... they'll get you eventually
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    Zero, I totally agree with most of what you just said, except for one thing though, since (to my ears anyway) the Lsi is such a laid back speaker, I would want to pair them up with some "brighter" sounding electronics, which I don't feel includes HK. HK with LSi would be like the complete opposite of Yamaha with Klipsch in my view. Although admittedly, some people may like either of those combinations.

    Those Onkyo stereo receivers are supposedly able to drive 4 ohm speakers too. That might be a good match for the LSi on the cheap.

    I don't know if the Denon 685 can handle 4 ohm loads or not.

    Also, old Adcoms are very cheap and plentiful if price is a factor, and I feel even the baby Adcoms like I have will be superior to any new stereo receiver from Denon, HK, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,490
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by marker
    HK with LSi would be like the complete opposite of Yamaha with Klipsch in my view.

    that's a great comparison.

    but imo a warm sounding speaker with warm sound electronics would make for a great listening experience. :D
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
    Jungson MagicBoat II
    Revel Performa M-20
    Velodyne cht-10 sub
    Rega P1 Turntable

    "People working at Polk Audio must sit around the office and just laugh their balls off reading many of these comments." -Lush
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  • Laura Palmer
    Laura Palmer Posts: 124
    edited July 2005
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    Wow, I can always count on everyone here to provide me with an overwhelming amount of insight and recommendations. I'm happy to know that the HK 3480 will "suffice" ... because for a bedroom system, that's all I care about. I just want something to be sufficient for a change :)

    I noticed though that there's pre-outs on the receiver, so wouldn't I have needed to buy something like this anyway? This way I can attach an amp somewhere down the road, but still be able to enjoy it in the meantime.

    Still though, I'm worried I'll end up not liking my RTi speakers after hearing the LSis now that you mention it, so I still need to null it over.

    Just for the record also, the volumes I was listening to my RTi12s at on my HK635 before I got my Monster Amp were plenty sufficient for me and I never had my system shut down on me. So I'm happy to hear the LSi9s will be less demanding than my RTi12s. (Or even the same is fine with me, cause I never experienced problems).

    As I said though, currently the size of room these speakers are in are 9x13...which isn't that big :)

    My HT stuff is gonna go into my living room which should be a BIT bigger (I hope) but it's still going to be an apartment anyway :P

    If I'm gonna jump into LSi bliss, it will have to be with an HK3480 for now. Cause I'm on a stricter budget these days.

    Thanks everyone for the advice!
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited July 2005
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    Just some experience with some LSi7's and a HK amplifier:

    They sound dark and veiled together, The LSi's sound MUCH better on a carver than the HK, the Counterpoint is even better.

    LSi + HK don't mix well. I believe shack and beardog (IIRC) had similar experiences

    RTi12 vs LSi9's? In lower end recievers, the LSi9 is the harder load as you will short the amp section much earlier due to the lower resistance (Poor amp design in the cheapies). Once you get to amps that produce a REAL 40+W, the RTi12's CAN be more difficult to drive due to their bass extension only, not because of number of drivers (directly) or anything else. More bass = more power.

    All things being equal, the 9's should be the harder to drive in most situations with most music outside of Rap/Bass drops. They are the lower ohm, less effiecient speaker.

    Edit: Saw the room size, you should be fine with either. The 9's may sound veiled until a new amplifier section is added, but from a power perspective, it would be fine. Oh, and the LSi's even on HK amps sound better the just about anything in the RTi line.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • 2+2
    2+2 Posts: 546
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    Just some experience with some LSi7's and a HK amplifier:

    They sound dark and veiled together, The LSi's sound MUCH better on a carver than the HK, the Counterpoint is even better.

    LSi + HK don't mix well. I believe shack and beardog (IIRC) had similar experiences


    I can add to jds comments. He does have a point that HK can sound too laid back with LSis which I experienced with my HK230 and LSi 15 as well as LSi7. However, LSi7 to me, sounds much less laid back than the 15s and sounded pretty good with the 7s in my opinion making the 7s sound much bigger than they are. With the 15s, sometimes, the sound seemed like it was coming from the back of hte speakers on some recordings while others sounded absolutely beatiful and smmmmoooothhhhh. No experience with LSi9s which will probably fall in between the 7s and the 15s.

    I also have a HK 5800 amp and my opinion is that most of the "laid back" character of HK comes from the pre-amp section and less so from the amp section. Of course, this is with the AVR and NOT a stereo amp which will likely have a different sound...so your results may vary.....
    System 1: Martin Logan Vantage, Rotel RC 1070, B&K Reference 200.2, Music Hall DAC 15.2, Yamaha 2300

    System 2: LSi15 w/db840, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Sony X2020ES

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, Music Hall Maven, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 4: RTi100, Harman Kardon AVR 230, Panasonic DVD
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited July 2005
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    My experience is based off the amp only, same results with three different pre's and two amps (beside the HK) (AKA: The HK amp was the culprit)
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • 2+2
    2+2 Posts: 546
    edited July 2005
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    That's interesting! What HK amp were you using? I played with the 5800 and Rotel in combo with 230 and the sound difference between the amps were not htat dramatic but when I hooked up the 1068, very different, much more forward sounding....
    UGGgg.....you gotta love audio....no consistency in anything....except that Bose Blows....;)
    System 1: Martin Logan Vantage, Rotel RC 1070, B&K Reference 200.2, Music Hall DAC 15.2, Yamaha 2300

    System 2: LSi15 w/db840, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Sony X2020ES

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, Music Hall Maven, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 4: RTi100, Harman Kardon AVR 230, Panasonic DVD
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited July 2005
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    HK PA5800 5-Channel.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,522
    edited July 2005
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    Laura,
    You don't need "big power" just good quality power for your 2-channel rig/Lsi combo. Maybe a Parasound HCA-1000 or similar at 125 watts. An amp like this paired with a preamp (used) could be had for under $800 total with careful shopping.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,082
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by Laura Palmer
    Still though, I'm worried I'll end up not liking my RTi speakers after hearing the LSis now that you mention it, so I still need to null it over.

    If you are going to do a fair amount of long term critical listening this will likely happen :( . I don't see anyway to avoid it. It's just something else to contend with while enjoying this hobby :p .

    When assembling my office/computer room system I wanted to make sure it didn't "compete" with my main rig. I was successful. You went with the best by choosing the 9's. Who know's they may end up in your main rig and the 12's may end up in the bedroom :eek:

    Again good luck and let us know how it turns out

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2005
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    Were it me, I'd look at a nice integrated amp. If you want AM/FM, a tuna can be added.

    Good integrated amps are too often overlooked and offer serious bang/buck.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2005
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    ^ What he said X 2! You've GOT to get that nasty tuner section away from the power amp.
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