Speaker stands and sand

No kidding?! I just figured the sand would make them more stable is all - kinda like a patio umbrella. This hobby sure has a lot of cool (if not quirky) tricks to it's trade....
Living near the great lakes, the sand is free up here - I'd be happy to get you some but it'd probably cost more to ship it than it would to buy it!

Heavier than sand is lead shot. I just mass loaded a pair of CRS stands, they took 22lbs. of shot each. If you've seen the stands, there isn't that much to them and sand wouldn't have added anywhere close to that weight. For speakers stands, the more they weigh the better.

Originally posted by madmax
I read a good article about stands one time where the listener (with really good electronics and speakers, I forget what) tried 15 or so different stands and got about 10 different results. He was of the opinion that the different stands made quite a difference to the sound. I've never tried it myself so I have no real opinion. I would say go with it and see. Apparently there are differences in sound when you go with lead shot vs ball bearings vs sand vs pea gravel.
madmax


Edit: Oh yea, just remembered, the difference between the differences in material used was that something like ball bearings allowed the vibrations to turn more to heat because the surfaces could rub against each other a lot more than sand or pea gravel. I believe he said concrete or other solid weight does little as far as sound quality. Like I say though, never tried it. I would like to fill the bottoms of my SDA's up with ball bearings one day just to see what it does.

Hi,

Since Early has spikes on his stands he is coupling them to the floor. The big question is, "Which would sound better, speaker stands coupled to the floor, or decoupled?"

I believe the answer depends on the construction of his floor. If his floor is resilient, i.e. wood floors, increased coupling could produce sympathetic vibrations in the floor. The floor vibrations could interfere with the direct bass coming through the air and muddy the presentation.

If the floors are massive and rigid, i.e. concrete slab, they are much less likely to vibrate when coupled to the speaker stands. However, as you may have alluded to, concrete still transmitts bass quite well in comparison to other materials.

For this reason, regardless of the floor construction, many professional home theater designers construct a stage in the front of the room and place the subwoofer(s) and front speakers on it. The stage is rigidly constructed to resist vibrations, and filled with sand to absorb transmitted bass. It is the mass of the sand and the friction between the sand particles that mitigates the transmission of the bass.



I've placed massive, solid concrete block stands under my SDA's on my home theater stage, and filled the stage with 1,000 pounds of sand.

I only use these example to show how mass and sand can decouple the speakers from the floor. Obviously, I am not suggesting that Early build a stage. However, depending on the construction of his floor it might be worthwhile to experiment not only with coupling spikes, but with isolation rubber feet. I think in either case adding mass shouldn't hurt.

With regard to the use of lead shot or ball bearings versus sand, although they are more massive, I would think that since they are larger they would have less friction than sand. (For example, larger diameter tires have less drag, rolling resistance, than small tires.) An other minor concern I would have regarding metal balls would be that they might have more of a tendancy to buzz when vibrated against one an other.

Larry

(For example, larger diameter tires have less drag, rolling resistance, than small tires.) An other minor concern I would have regarding metal balls would be that they might have more of a tendancy to buzz when vibrated against one an other.



Two things here.

First, the rolling resistance of a tire is based, in part, on the contact patch. If a large diameter and small diameter tire have the same contact patch the rolling resisitance should be the same. However, the larger the diameter tire will cause the rpm's to drop compared to a smaller diameter tire (unless the final drive ratio is changed to compensate) resulting in the need for more power to be applied and in turn using more gasoline. Jstas, feel free to chime in here.

Second, lead shot does not vibrate, dead mass.


I think sand is fine to use, but if one needs more weight per volume, then lead shot would be a better choice.

Sand, Shot, all good choices.

If you can stand the dust during the fill, scoopable (fine) kitty litter is the best of both worlds. Heaver than sand, cheaper than shot.

Cheers,
Russ

That's a good point Chuck, however more mass = less vibes, or you could say more mass requires much more energy to trasmit the same vibes as less mass.

In theory the large vibes will be translated (broken down) into very tiny vibrations between the small spaces around the sand/shot. Granted they are VERY tiny, but they are also occuring on an exponential scale.

Cheers,
Russ

Originally posted by F1nut
$19.99 per 25lb. bag of #5 shot at Bass Pro.

Thanks! There are no Bass Pro's in my neck of the woods but I've got a few other places that might work out.

How large is #5 shot? Are we talking the size of a BB from a BB gun? Smaller? Larger? Just curious, thanks!

#5 shot is slightly smaller than a standard BB. It does come in larger sizes, but that was the biggest Bass Pro had in the store.

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Sand, Shot, all good choices.

If you can stand the dust during the fill, scoopable (fine) kitty litter is the best of both worlds. Heaver than sand, cheaper than shot.

Cheers,
Russ

Petsmart is having a sale on TidyCat brand scoopable litter this week.:D

I can't speak for sand, but when I added lead shot to my stands, WHOA! Definitely improved the midbass response. Gave the speakers a "More stuck to the floor" sound. But I paid $20 for a 25lb bag.

Originally posted by Early B.
The stands still wobble slightly when a little pressure is applied to them, but it looks kinda cool because all of the spikes are fully visible.

Can't you adjust the spikes so they level out the stands/speakers? I have to adjust my spikes so that the speakers and stands sit level. They don't budge after I do that.

LOL.....removing the caps was the hardest part. I used a single edge razor blade positioned between the plastic cap and the metal frame, tap the razor gently around all 4 edges of the plastic cap/frame with a small hammer to help break the grip. It won't do much, but get things started. I then used a 1" chisel, tapping it gently while at a slight angle away from the frame. You have to do a little on one edge, then a little on another edge going around all 4 edges until it pops out. Be careful not to damage the plastic by hitting the plastic too hard, the chisel will cut though it easily. At least mine will, I keep them razor sharp. You have to remove all 4 caps in order to fill all of the frame. The bottom is one section, the two posts are each a section and the top is one section. There is a small hole on the back edge of the bottom section. I covered it with thin, small round felt pad to prevent the shot from falling out and back off the screws for the spikes/feet, but do not remove them. Fill the bottom section first, then put the 2 caps back on. Just inside the top section is a small opening to the top of the posts, pour the shot in there. Next, fill the top section, a little tape over the opening for the posts will keep the shot from falling out. When you're done filling the top put the caps back on, screw the spikes/feet back in place and you're done. I used about 22lbs. of shot per stand and would shake/tap the frame to help settle things as I went.