ISO - Tubed pre-amp recommendations

heiney9 · April 30

I am starting a new journey to keep some tubes in the mix. I am also looking for something basic and simple. My philosophy has always been simple, well designed and built circuits with premium parts is best.

I don't need sub management, HT pass through, multiple variable outputs, phono, dac or streamer, etc capabilities. I do need remote and atleast 2 inputs. Use the 12A*7 family of tubes and variants. Although for specific choices I could do 6DJ8/ECC88 and in a rare case 6N11 and/or 6N6P.

Here's the big kicker as I'm cheap,,,,er...um. I mean value oriented. $2500 max. New or used. Preferably closer to $2K

. I've looked at 3 so far (on-line). No place for brick and mortar.

Rogue RP-3 (has a lot of stuff I won't use) - great rep uses 12AU7's
Lab12 Pre1 (uses 6922's, but only a pair, so not bad)
Galion TS P75 (uses (4) 12AT7, simple, well built w/exotic caps)

Here's the Galion, which has me intrigued. Made in China by Doge to specification.

https://www.galion-audio.com/pages/ts-p75-preamp

https://www.galion-audio.com/products/ts-p75-pre-amplifier

I have a great source for many types of NOS 12AT7 tubes.

Anyone know anything about this brand or have used/listened to it?

I am not in a hurry, I am going to do my research, but this is exactly what I'm looking for in a design and function.

Recommendations, discussions.......one thing I don't want is something older that may have to be serviced soon. That's why I'm looking new or a few years old.

H9

P.s. Yes, I'll be letting the Eastern Electric AVANT go. I have had a lot of fun with it and it still punches well above its price point.

pitdogg2 · April 30

https://www.ebay.com/itm/397267445820?

I've been using one for more than a decade.

Upstatemax · April 30

Used Prima Luna might be up your alley.

Current model, maybe something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/366296776513?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=366296776513&targetid=2295557531510&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9004638&poi=&campaignid=21404249913&mkgroupid=173029508828&rlsatarget=pla-2295557531510&abcId=9450098&merchantid=6296724&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21404249913&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh-qwcn3LFi9n77wOLlVcv4Yz&gclid=CjwKCAjw-8vPBhBbEiwAoA39WgofLZGpIDkX7HFFeCS7Vaw9b0cZ_Jpq1OYBFKq-L-SVKJna71JEixoCGD8QAvD_BwE

I love my Prima Luna pre. They seem to be well designed and executed preamps.

heiney9 · April 30

Definitely a solid brand............but too many tubes. A small part of why I'm looking past the Avant is the tube rolling combo's are many, many more than I'm interested in doing these days. I had my fun.

H9

heiney9 · April 30

pitdogg2 wrote: »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/397267445820?

I've been using one for more than a decade.

Too many tubes..........I guess I didn't state that in the original post. I meant to.

4 tubes max and no tube rectifier tube this time. I have had so many profound changes with rectifier tubes it's driving me crazy. I feel like Golidlocks and the 3 bears.......

I need to some constants in the design of I'll go crazy...lol

H9

heiney9 · April 30

My original plan was to just find a Pass Labs XP-10 or XP-12 pre and call it done. But, the more I thought about it, I don't want to totally be tubeless. Even used they are still more than I'm comfortable spending at this moment. The economy, and closing in on retirement I just can't spend $4K+ on a used pre-amp. I'll need it for gas $$$ to get to work....lol

H9

WagnerRC · April 30

\consider this?

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/181206/fs-joule-electra-mk-ii-835-00-shipped-conus#latest

nooshinjohn · April 30

Mcintosh C2200/C2300 would be fantastic choices.

heiney9 · April 30

....

H9

mhardy6647 · April 30

Maybe way off axis of what you seek, but a local hifi friend & fellow traveler brought one of these over one day. These were/are sold as kits and are often tarted up considerably with boutique parts. This one was somewhat tarted up, but the design is generally no-nonsense, the execution is good, and the sound was excellent.

Four 6SN7 and a 6X5 (?!) HV rectifier.

Vacuum Tube Audio SP14
https://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm

heiney9 · April 30

The SP13 could be a contender. I'll have to do some more research on parts selection.

H9

HzTweaker · May 1

What about something like the Schiit Freya+F like:

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-f

heiney9 · May 1

HzTweaker wrote: »

What about something like the Schiit Freya+F like:

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-f

I almost pulled the trigger twice for a noval edition as I don't want to collect yet another tube type (4) 6SN7's. I have 3 Schiit headphone tube amps already which I use in the office rig. A Valhalla 2 OTL, Lyr 2 and the new Lyr +. I used the Lyr+ in the main rig for awhile and Schiit products are really good, just not reference rig good, IMO. The house sound is a bit aggressive which doesn't seem to pair well with the rest of the main rig. I still look for a reasonably priced Freya Noval & if I find one I would probably grab it.

The Lyr+ uses a single 6SN7 of which I've collected over a dozen OS pieces. It's cool because it can switch to solid state and it has a 24 step ladder volume control and remote, which is unheard of at its price point.

It just didn't have enough tube flavor for the main rig and I didn't care for the SS. It's due for another go around in the main rig.

The Valhalla 2 (OTL) is my favorite in the office rig, used as a pre-amp. I have some fantastic 60's Russian tubes in it (6N1P or 6N23P and 6N6P) and it's superb with the Pass ACA and Eastern Electric Dac Plus w/DEXA discrete op-amps.

H9

P.s. both Lyr's will be coming up for sale.

bcwsrt · May 1

Would the Rogue RP-1 appeal more than the RP-3? I don’t know what all the differences are, but the front panel is definitely simpler. No balanced ins or outs, though, if you’re looking for those.

The RP-1 is well-regarded, also. Rogue phono sections get high marks. So does their customer service.

I don’t have any experience with their dedicated pre-amps, but my Cronus integrated is super-responsive to 12au7 changes.

heiney9 · May 1

I was looking at the Rogue RP-1. Talking with a seller, etc. Doing research, the RP-3 is a better match to the XA25. It has the newer architecture too, etc.

The RP-1 would work, but the research says the RP-3 will give much better performance, so that's where I'm leaning. The RP-3 is new, so finding used units isn't happening yet. I won't and don't ever pay new retail for any piece of gear.

I don't need a phono section, but it's probably good for resale.

I was also looking at a used RP-5, but it's at the top of the budget and v1 is older, perhaps older than I want to go at the top of my budget. v2's are over budget and then I feel like I might be paying for stuff I don't need.

Rogue has a great rep, that's why they are a front runner.

I can take my time. I am using the Pass DIY ACP+ pre-amp in the main rig now. It sounds really, really good. The Diy'er I purchase from put it in a true heavy chassis with a proper power supply and used upgraded parts. It's a good place holder, but it's not remote.

H9

pearsall001 · May 1

I had the Rogue RP-1 a few years ago & I was a bit disappointed with it's sound signature.
It was as if it was a SS pre, not tubes. I think you have to move up in there lineup to actually get the tube signature sound & even then it can be very subjective.
If you do pickup a Rogue piece make sure it comes with a in home trial period.
Excellent build quality & one of the best companies out there that take care of there customers.

pitdogg2 · May 1

I can state the same with the Rogue super magnum 99 I had. It had all the upgrades Rogue offered as well.

heiney9 · May 1

pearsall001 wrote: »

I had the Rogue RP-1 a few years ago & I was a bit disappointed with it's sound signature.
It was as if it was a SS pre, not tubes. I think you have to move up in there lineup to actually get the tube signature sound & even then it can be very subjective.
If you do pickup a Rogue piece make sure it comes with a in home trial period.
Excellent build quality & one of the best companies out there that take care of there customers.

I've heard the (2) tube models RP-1 and RP-3 aren't very tubey. I love they are made in the Midwest and I know they have a stellar reputation. Good resale too.

I just can't decide atm, I rolled in some 1954 Sylvania JHS 5751 3mica black plate and a quad of 1949 KenRad 5814 charcoal long plates and a 1953 Brimar EZ 90 black glass, black plate rectifier into the Avant......it's sounding sweet, best it has in the new place.

I do want a change, but I'm not going to be hasty about it. I'll keep looking and doing research and when that "one" shows up I'll know.

Keep the discussion/comments coming.

H9

tonyp063 · May 1

I think the first thing I would ask you is "Do you or do you not need/want gain. If yes, how much?"
and go from there.

With that said, I've built the preamp circuit that the tubes4hifi pres use & it sounds lovely.
My ears, gear, etc.

mhardy6647 · May 2

so... not quite on topic, but not entirely off the rails, either.
I just caught wind of a new Schiit product that, if nothing else, is inexpensive and... well... probably not horrible. It claims to be a buffer with gain, and it also claims to run its twin triode tube (6N1P, swappable with the 6922 fine family of twin triodes) at real operating points (i.e., 100 VDC on the plates).
https://www.schiit.com/products/buf

mhardy6647 · May 2

ok, maybe not... looks like it's just an effects box.

heiney9 · May 2

I have (3) Schiit headphone/pre-amps w/tubes. The Valhalla 2 OTL is excellent, but not really a "reference" rig product.

I have tried the Lyr+ in the main rig. It has remote and a single 6SN7 with their Fusion architecture. Which means it can do SS too.

Also: Lyr+ is our first compact headamp that gives you relay ladder volume control, for ultimate transparency and perfect channel matching, from the lowest to highest volumes. Coupled with a powerful Continuity™ bipolar output stage, full DC coupling throughout, separate regulated high-voltage and low-voltage supplies, the convenience of remote control (in case you want to use it, say, off the desktop), and microprocessor oversight, Lyr+ is a small marvel.

The Schiit house sound is definitely a bit more "alive" than I'm used to. The Valhalla 2 Otl is doing a superb job as a pre for my Pass ACA amp. I have some 60's Russian 6N6P's and 6N1P-VI from Nevz that sound superb. I also roll some of the Holy Grail 1974 Reflektor 6N23P's with gray shield and single wire getter post. I also have 1961 6DJ8 - Amperex BB's with lg halo getter, Heerlen Holland tubes. They are a bit too lean, great sound stage. The 1964 6N1P-VI has the same great sound stage, but more meat on the bone.

Because of my completest compulsion, I have 60's 6N1P's in the V, VI, I and E variant as well as the 3 mica black plate. They all sound a little different. I have a problem......I know

H9

The Valhalla 2 can run 6DJ8's, 6N23P's and 6N1P's in the same position without issues.

nooshinjohn · May 2

The Schiit house sound is definitely a bit more "alive" than I'm used to..

Tends to happen when the walls are 4 feet apart. The smell takes some getting used to though.

nooshinjohn · May 3

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisbhdj1-rogue-audio-rp-5-stereo-tube-hybrid-preamplifier-tube

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650319175-bat-vk-51-se/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650317858-audio-research-ls17se-tube-preamp-with-remote/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650295999-cary-slp-98-line-stage-preamp/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650309777-rogue-audio-rp-5/

Viking64 · May 3

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The Schiit house sound is definitely a bit more "alive" than I'm used to..

Tends to happen when the walls are 4 feet apart. The smell takes some getting used to though.

Whenever I listen to "The Woodstock Album", I am always impressed by the Schitt detail.

newbie308 · May 3

I'm interested in where your search takes you since I've been thinking along the same lines. I don't mind a little DIY, so I have been kicking around the idea of getting a Conrad Johnson PV10 and adding a Alps motorized volume pot and remote board to it. I'd hate to drill the face plate for the IR sensor, though. That's where I'm stuck.

heiney9 · May 3

I've slowed my roll a bit. I'm still working on my rig using the Avant. I've done some minor, makeshift room treatments and speaker/listening position adjustments and I've dialed things in better. The biggest issue is that both the Pass XA25 and Avant are extremely sensitive to any signal changes. Meaning even a rectifier change makes a huge impact (good and bad) on the sound. Both are extremely transparent, which can be a double edged sword.

I just need to be more patient........I guess. I am looking for 9/10th's perfection of the sound I want. I'm 90% sure the gear I have can get me there, I just have to be a bit more deliberate in a very methodical way of swapping tubes and adjusting the "room" and listening position as well as investing in room treatments. Just adjusting toe in by 3-5* has made a huge positive improvement in the sound stage.

The one piece of gear I can't get my mind off of is the one I posted earlier. The Galion TS P75 tube pre. Heard/read some really great things about it. I may pull the trigger just to see how it compares. I think it's good to try some other gear. It can reveal things about the current rig that either reinforce staying on the same path or going down another path. I recently experienced this when I swapped in an old piece of gear thinking it might be like "old times". It was apparent how far I've come.

I am embarrassed to report that placing a thick blanket over the TV in the center of the speakers, really made a big difference. I know this, yet it took me until now to actually do it. Also, for a long time I've been using (2) different pairs of 12AU7's in the Avant even though the designer stated that it's not recommended. Just this past week I put in a quad of the same tubes......seemed to correct some issues.

H9

maxward · May 5

Just got an email stating that Elekit is selling their kits for 10% off for three days. I didn’t dig too deep, but I assume their preamps are tubed. So if you can build an Amp Camp Amp, you can probably easily build one of these.

bcwsrt · May 6

For what it's worth ...

https://youtu.be/_2jYpi35izQ?

He sure does do a lot of rambling. "What do you really think?" is at 12:00.

ISO - Tubed pre-amp recommendations

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