Thinking of adding more McIntosh gear… 2023 Grand Wagoneer series 3

That's a sweet looking ride for sure.

EndersShadow wrote: »

We have had a Jeep Grand Cherokee for quite a few years and it’s a pretty good SUV.

Gets decent MPG and comfy for my family of 4.

That was a pre-Stellantis design that goes back to when Benz and Chrysler were joined at the hip. The newer stuff...well, I think enough has been said.

Minivans can't tow worth a damn and payload capacity is often lacking for the size of the vehicle.

Big SUVs can.

Any one of the big SUVs from the usual suspects has a litany of reported issues, all big and small problems alike. Extended warranties on any of them is a very good idea.

The Wagoneer is the fastest if you get the short wheelbase and while it can haul and tow I've seen complaints that it tends to get pushed around by heavy trailers.

The Expedition/Navigator is bigger inside while being the smallest outside and can tow/haul more than the Wagoneer with the added benefit of being able to fit 4x8 foot sheets of building materials with the seats down if that is one of your needs.

The Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade is slower than the other two but it comes with a big V8 instead of a turbocharged 6-cylinder. They don't tow as much unless you get the diesel in the Suburban but they have higher payload capacities than the other two so you don't have to limit how many fat friends you take along with you.

The first year that the Toyota Sequoia could actually compete with the Ford, GM and Chrysler offerings was 2025 when they finally broke the 7K towing capacity benchmark with it. Prior to that, the only Toyota SUV that could hit 8K+ pounds was the Land Cruiser which is small compared to the "Big 3" offerings. That said, the Sequoia is "big" by most people standards until you park it next to am Expedition Max or a long wheelbase Wagoneer and you see how big it isn't, comparatively.


That said, the Wagoneer is as good as any of them. I found it cramped inside for the size of the vehicle but it's at least as nicely appointed as the Navigator even if materials felt a little more low rent than the Caddy or the Lincoln. Performance/capability it's almost a dead heat between the Big 3. I think the slowest one is the Suburban which is still a sub-6.5 second jaunt to 60 for the 6.2L V8 and even the diesel Suburban gets to 60 in less than 8.4 seconds. For pigs that tip the scales at over 6,000 pounds that is a massive amount of horsepower to get them moving that fast, that quickly.

Also, having taken extremely long road trips in a pickup truck, a minivan, a crossover, a sedan and a massive SUV, the massive SUVs are, by far, the preferred road-trip vehicle. The power, the size, the weight and typically the long wheel base make them excellent at eating up the road and absorbing bumps and poor weather like it was nothing.

If it was a Subaru with the 3.6 engine those have known leaking problems and were discontinued. Their more recent reliability is because they're down to two basic boring engine types and have worked the trouble spots out of them for the most part over the last decade.

The Hurricane twin turbo inline six cylinder was pretty new to market in 2023 but I haven't really heard of many problems with them. Definitely not compared to the Toyota twin turbo engine! The main issues I have heard of with the Hurricane six have been electronic control related or hose/clamp build quality problems.