Rig finally up and running
Comments
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Right on, sounds like you're leaning towards tearing that out then? Opening up your space? No headache of removing water lines.....
Correct no plumbing to deal with. I am leaning that way, but there is also the "my dad designed and built that and he's no longer here" thought too. Things like that pull at the heart strings a bit.
If it were slid 3-4' farther back. There would be plenty of room for a listening chair. Right now I'm right up against the center bump out in the bar with the back of the loveseat. There is an over stuffed leather chair and ottoman that I could switch out for a listening chair. Takes up less space, but I'd still have to be as far back.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
Correct no plumbing to deal with. I am leaning that way, but there is also the "my dad designed and built that and he's no longer here" thought too. Things like that pull at the heart strings a bit.
If it were slid 3-4' farther back. There would be plenty of room for a listening chair. Right now I'm right up against the center bump out in the bar with the back of the loveseat. There is an over stuffed leather chair and ottoman that I could switch out for a listening chair. Takes up less space, but I'd still have to be as far back.
H9
That's a heavy dilemma for sure. I believe in time you will find a solution that will accommodate both the need for function and the satisfaction of sentiment. My guess is you're already trying to figure out how to just move it.Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
How large is this space overall in volume- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Another question: How does the room upstairs with your ES20 rig compare? Is there a reason you want the L600 in the basement?
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You'll get there it just takes time when you move into a new place as we all know.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
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"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul!
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So most 3 way speakers the woofers play up to around 300hz.
.dual 7s are essentially a10 inch woofer.
Playing such a wide range, there is a sacrifice to extension and volume as you would otherwise be to loud in a critical point for some instruments and vocals.
The room is adding nothing where as a crawl space definitely adds room gain.
I just think you are expecting to much from the speakers for that size room on a slab
My room is not to different and I am running the surface area equivalent of 14 x 7 inch drivers and there are moments I would concede I need a subwoofer and I also experience tremendous room gain.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I know you don't want to hear this...but...you're gonna need a sub or better yet dual subs. The room is just too much to handle for the speakers to live up to your expectations.
My room is almost identical at 13x30x7 on a cement slab & I've lived here since 1992 so I'm quite familiar how the room effects the sound.
I've had many speakers both stand mounts & towers over the years & without the subs the sound was not up to snuff, now don't get me wrong I always had very good sound but lacking. Enter the subs & wallah!! There it was. I know you're not a sub guy but just food for though here. Just take your time & have fun experimenting.
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
I’d remove the bar.
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Just an idea......and of course space A......ever hangout in the garage.....tinkering and dinking around, friends come over, a few beers here and there. Mission, should you choose to accept....Relocation of dads bar, transforming garage into place of relaxation and memories and of dedication.Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
Thanks for all the feedback. I will take it all into consideration. Setting up the best sounding rig is going to take time and some experimentation.
Keep the discussion going.....this rig has to stay in this room or the office/bedroom down here. No options for main level or garage. I live in the Midwest, 20 miles from the Wisc/IL border, Winter can be harsh. Turing the garage into a man cave isn't really an option. Both because of the build out and loss of a 2 1/2 car garage and partly climate related.
These days how does one incorporate a sub into a 2ch system? Obviously my 2ch gear has no options for sub management.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
Setup your system in the office room and find out if it works out better before moving the cool looking bar your dad built. It may or may not sound better in the office, but there is only one way to find out
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Hey Brock I just sent you a PM."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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I’d remove the bar.
Or, at the very least, move it if you can.
I totally get the sentimental aspect of it, but two things I would think about - one, if you bought the house from someone you didn't know at all, would it already be gone? And two, if your dad was still here, do you think he would shrug and say "it's your house now, you have to live there" .
Just my $.01 (don't have .02 these days LOL)So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Ditto*
I'm super-interested in your comments about the power conditioner once you get a feel for it. I've had one of those on my wishlist for a while.
An APC H15* is what I currently have.
Also curious to learn Brock’s comments
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro, Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer
Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop)
LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels*. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - RB981*
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981* -> Bi-amped CSi A6
Surrounds: Rotel 981* -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
*all connected w/Premiere ICs
5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
Try the free acoustic analysis at soundproof.com and see what they say:
https://www.soundproofcow.com/acoustic-analysis/George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
I did some tweaking. The speakers were 22.5" off the back wall. I moved them closer and are now 18". Dialed in the equilateral triangle listening position more precisely. Took the rubber off the feet so they are now on spikes and leveled. Also adjusted the toe-in a bit.
Made a pretty big difference. The bass is back and at low to mid levels it sounds fantastic. Get it passed a certain point (which is fairly loud) and too many reflections start to make things sound unbalanced and just a bit strident at times. I desperately need some room treatments.
Now down that rabbit hole of how/where to install room treatments.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
I've made a decision to make some minor changes in the rig. I will continue to stream Qobuz as it has been fantastic. I just modded my BlueSound Node 3 with the board to run an external linear PS. Great piece of gear that works and sounds great.
One small issue with Qobuz is has some artists whose entire catalog isn't available and artists not available at all.
Since replacing the Squeeze Box Touch I no longer have the ability to run a music server of my own music. I decided to purchase a Roon Nucleus One which is a music server and will allow streaming over the network (wired and wireless).
As is my belief that switching walwarts are a compromise I also purchased a 19V 4A linear power supply to run the Roon NO. With Roon you also have to run their software/architecture and Qobuz can be integrated into the architecture. Roon is a subscription service. I also bought a dedicated 9" Lenovo tablet to control everything.
Here are some preliminary photo's. Hope to have it up and running by the end of the weekend.
Also pictured Samsung 4TB SSD for storage and the Lenovo tablet
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
These days how does one incorporate a sub into a 2ch system? Obviously my 2ch gear has no options for sub management.
H9
If you can't get it right with the sub controls, you have to look into some form of EQ for them. Use either free room software or purchase something like Dayton OmniMic and do room sweeps to adjust. I did sweeps to get optimum speaker placement first. Steady tones can overload a room played too long so a sweep tone works best. Then I tried subs positioned all over the room to find they worked best against the wall by speakers. This all took me a few Saturdays.
The room, the room.... I had to add subs due to a large open main level with 14' ceilings. Otherwise no deep boom boom with dubstep or pipe organ.
Only one speaker is near a corner, and I have stacked bass traps there, singles in other corner and by chimney box. Even after subs added and dialed in, if I leave the sweet spot and walk towards center of room, the bass starts to disappear. Keep walking it reappears. I was lucky and able to just use sub controls to dial them in.
The subs did have some extra handy adjustments. A boundary switch, which brings in a –3-dB for corner placement and a +3-dB bass boost away from corners. They only come in when needed.Post edited by SCompRacer onSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
