VPI Signature 21 Turntable.
Comments
-
I was just informed that VPI is sending me a Heavier weight..
-
I was just informed that VPI is sending me a Heavier weight..
Honestly, I was just sitting here wondering if they had different weights or if the arm and weight was built around a certain cartridge.
Good to hear !! -
Honestly, I was just sitting here wondering if they had different weights or if the arm and weight was built around a certain cartridge.
Good to hear !!
The weight they gave me, IMO, would be good for a cartridge that weighs about 5g, but from what I see, common weight is in the 9g-10g range.
So I would think a 180g-200g weight is what I need.. -
The Zephyr weighs 10.27 grams.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Oh, my bad, congrats on the TT upgrade!
Since they didn't include the other weight(s), I can only guess VPI wanted to keep costs down and supply only one.
When I had a 12" Moerch DP-6 arm, I had to purchase different weight arms (identified with a Green, Red or Blue dot), to match cartridge compliance. However, they did include the heavier counterbalance weights.
I like to have the arm close to neutral balance before aligning a cartridge so I don't stress the cantilever with excess tracking force. What is the method VPI uses for aligning cartridge with that arm? Overhang or protractor?
Pivoted arms will have an overhang spec, that is center of spindle to tip of stylus. Some arms won't swing over spindle to use an overhang gauge. When they did, alignment was so easy.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
-
As of right now, (I don't have the new counter weight yet) I can say that the customer service at Music Direct, and at VPI are Top Shelf..
Starting yesterday afternoon, they had their tech guy call me while he was on his way home, after talking to him, he said, let me pull over, and I will call you back, and do a face time call, so he could see what was going on.
That alone was one of the coolest customer service interactions/conversations I have had to date, since being in this hobby.
Let alone, they called me back this morning, and had a plan, after talking with VPI.
I personally called VPI, and the lady was very nice as well, she took some notes, asked me to send an email with my questions, and within 30 minutes, Matt emailed me back, and assured about the counter weight, and was waiting on MD to see how they were going to get it moving.
Within 15 minutes after that call, I received an email on the new counter weight with an invoice of $0.00 dollars..
Now back to the waiting game.
But so far, I couldn't be happier with their response time, and attitude.. -
Congrats on the new table!
I have 2 VPI tables, so I'm pretty familiar. I also have both versions of the Fatboy arms, one gimbal and one dual pivot. I have not had issues with adjusting VTF on the carts. I hope your new counterweight is what you need to get up and running. What is the current VTF on your cart with the current counterweight?Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Any one here using the ADS Drive System? Are they really worth the money? they just jumped in price this last week..
I am kinda failing to see the need for it, for the money they are asking for it..
BTW, VPI Shipped my weight to Music Direct, not sure why MD wouldn't just have them drop ship it.
-
I have zero experience with VPI but have used Nottingham's Wave Mechanic (was $1,599 retail list) on a Space 294 and a DIY analog speed controller for my Lenco before I went with a superior digital one. The DIY analog speed would vary as it got warm requiring readjust after 20 minutes or so, then it held the setting.
The first thing to determine is what amount of speed variation you have. Fluctuating line frequency and voltage can cause speed changes. Devices like the ADS help in those cases. But yes, you spend a lot for more precise control of the motor speed and yes, IMO they can make a difference.
I use a KAB SpeedStrobe to test platter speed with stylus in the groove. KAB uses a 9v battery strobe so no worries if your 60Hz line frequency is off some compared to using an incandescent bulb for strobe. The KAB tester disc has numbers instead of lines so it's much easier to read than one with lines. It's smaller than an LP so you can put the stylus in the groove for the first track. Stylus drag matters when checking speed. You'd be surprised how varying stylus drag can cause changes in speed on a belt drive, even with a heavy platter. But is it enough to cause an audible difference to you.
There are also speed/wow apps for the cell phone, mines android, but you must center the phone on spindle to get accurate results. Otherwise you get a rotational imbalance that skews your results. It's called RPM Speed and Wow.
Several years ago, I added a Phoenix Engineering Eagle 25watt power supply and RoadRunner tach to my idler drive Lenco. I was a beta tester for the 25watt version. Sadly Bill retired and closed up shop as it was very reasonably priced compared to some of the analog ones out there. The Eagle allows me to reduce voltage and Hz to lower amounts which makes the motor run smoother while still providing exact speed control. It was trial and error because if too low.....you lose control....
https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
Old acceptable speed variation specs are +1.5 % and -1%. On my Lenco I get -.04% / +.03% speed and .03% wow which are excellent numbers.
Post edited by SCompRacer onSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I have the ADS. Not sure it’s necessary but it makes fine tuning the speed incredibly easy, won’t need to mess with belt tension if you want it perfect. Congrats on the table. Sorry I couldn’t come through but think you’ll love the table you picked up. The gimbal bearing is likely less fussy than the unipivot in the end as well2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
stangman67 wrote: »I have the ADS. Not sure it’s necessary but it makes fine tuning the speed incredibly easy, won’t need to mess with belt tension if you want it perfect. Congrats on the table. Sorry I couldn’t come through but think you’ll love the table you picked up. The gimbal bearing is likely less fussy than the unipivot in the end as well
No worries Zach, I appreciate what I was able to get from you, that kinda set all of this down the rabbit hole. 😃 -
SCompRacer wrote: »I have zero experience with VPI but have used Nottingham's Wave Mechanic (was $1,599 retail list) on a Space 294 and a DIY analog speed controller for my Lenco before I went with a superior digital one. The DIY analog speed would vary as it got warm requiring readjust after 20 minutes or so, then it held the setting.
The first thing to determine is what amount of speed variation you have. Fluctuating line frequency and voltage can cause speed changes. Devices like the ADS help in those cases. But yes, you spend a lot for more precise control of the motor speed and yes, IMO they can make a difference.
I use a KAB SpeedStrobe to test platter speed with stylus in the groove. KAB uses a 9v battery strobe so no worries if your 60Hz line frequency is off some compared to using an incandescent bulb for strobe. The KAB tester disc has numbers instead of lines so it's much easier to read than one with lines. It's smaller than an LP so you can put the stylus in the groove for the first track. Stylus drag matters when checking speed. You'd be surprised how varying stylus drag can cause changes in speed on a belt drive, even with a heavy platter. But is it enough to cause an audible difference to you.
There are also speed/wow apps for the cell phone, mines android, but you must center the phone on spindle to get accurate results. Otherwise you get a rotational imbalance that skews your results. It's called RPM Speed and Wow.
Several years ago, I added a Phoenix Engineering Eagle 25watt power supply and RoadRunner tach to my idler drive Lenco. I was a beta tester for the 25watt version. Sadly Bill retired and closed up shop as it was very reasonably priced compared to some of the analog ones out there. The Eagle allows me to reduce voltage and Hz to lower amounts which makes the motor run smoother while still providing exact speed control. It was trial and error because if too low.....you lose control....
Thanks for the info, definitely will give me something to consider, after I get this beast up and going..
-
I highly recommend the Phoenix Engineering Eagle power supply and RoadRunner tach. Super easy to use, dead accurate speed and no need for any fine tuning, messing with the belt, etc.
I got them after a lot of research in which all agreed are better than the ADS. They do come up on the used market from time to time.
Edit: forgot to mention you can switch on the fly from 33 to 45 and back. Neat feature when you forgot that MoFi you just dropped the needle on is 45 not 33.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I highly recommend the Phoenix Engineering Eagle power supply and RoadRunner tach. Super easy to use, dead accurate speed and no need for any fine tuning, messing with the belt, etc.
I got them after a lot of research in which all agreed are better than the ADS. They do come up on the used market from time to time.
Edit: forgot to mention you can switch on the fly from 33 to 45 and back. Neat feature when you forgot that MoFi you just dropped the needle on is 45 not 33.
Don't look like they are available anymore, or in business..
-
Correct, that's why I said they come up used from time to time.
SOTA basically took over from Phoenix Engineering. Their version is a bit different though.
https://sotaturntables.com/products/total-eclipse-package/Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If a used one pops up, make sure it is proper wattage for your motor. IIRC he started with a 5 watt "Falcon" then offered the 15 watt Eagle.
I got to know Bill Carlin after he posted at the Lenco forum. He had moved from CA to WI and started Phoenix Engineering. There was a member there that designed an analog power supply for the Lenco motor and supplied PCB's and a BOM. Bill posted something, can't recall what, and they dogpile attacked him. I apologized for the forum members via PM, but it was like water rolling off a ducks back to him.
Then he asked if I wanted to be the beta tester for the 25watt Eagle. Sure! So, I got mine for free. I did have to work for it as he had me try different voltage/Hz combinations and report rise time to speed, did it hold speed, etc. I actually did videos so he could observe the operation. I'd send it back, he'd tweak the firmware, rinse, wash repeat until fini.
Thought it would be worth a mention that the tach controls the power supply to maintain set speed.
He is still active at diyaudio (as of 3/2025 anyway), username Pyramid.
Some guys have asked me why did I add the PS/tach on the Lenco idler drive. The motor has more than enough torque to maintain speed regardless of stylus drag. They just needed a custom heavy plinth to deaden motor vibrations.
Part of my issue was the manual speed linkage that moved the idler tire along the tapered motor shaft for the four speeds, 16,33,45 and 78. With a little wear, when you switch from one speed to another it would be slightly off. I'd have to go past the setting and come back to it.
With the Eagle PS, the idler remains fixed, and the controller provides the 33 and 45 speeds, like Jesse said at the push of a button. I don't have any 16/78 records anyway.
Post edited by SCompRacer onSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
It might just make sense, and simpler to get the ADS when I’m ready to go down that path. 😁
-
I've used an original VPI "line conditioner" with my Maplenoll for years, I looked at the output on an oscilloscope and the waveform is a variable frequency sawtooth. The idea is there will be less "cogging" from an AC motor, although with a 65lb flywheel and no friction I'm not sure it matters much. But it does let me set the speed.
-
FWIW, Tom Fletcher (RIP) of Nottingham TT fame, felt that high torque AC motors were more prone to cogging than low torque motors. You had to push start the platter to get them going. I had a Space Deck and then a Space 294.
Bill had posted a DIY 4 Phase Sinewave Generator for Turntable Motors at diyaudio back in 2016. Since I had the Eagle I didn't try building one.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diy-4-phase-sinewave-generator-for-turntable-motor-drive.298018/Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
My weight will be here on Friday!!
A shop here in town (Progressive Plastics) is making me a custom dust cover, said it will be done in a week. $185.00 not a bad price.. -
The Maplenoll uses a low torque motor, I give it a scoot to get it started to reduce the strain on the belt. There is one owner who has taken the capstan motor from a Studer A80 and adapted it to run his table.
-
My weight will be here on Friday!!
A shop here in town (Progressive Plastics) is making me a custom dust cover, said it will be done in a week. $185.00 not a bad price..
Would like to see pictures when you get it.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Norma Revo DAC-2, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon, WAY power cables for all other sources. -
What is an ADS?
My VPI TNT has an SDS, are they the same thing? -
Maybe TMI, but here is a page showing the various models and differences.
https://www.turntablepsu.com/vpi.htmlSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
skipshot12 wrote: »What is an ADS?
My VPI TNT has an SDS, are they the same thing?
Similar, but different. Here's some info at MD.
https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/accessories/analog-accessories/vpi-ads-drive-system/Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Would like to see pictures when you get it.
Here’s my cardboard mock up. 😁 I will post pics when I get it..
-
I use the Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC on my Scout. Highly recommended.
I bit the bullet this morning..
-
Nice mock up! I had a cover made in 2012. I just scribbled some lines with dimensions. Can't find it but it would be too embarrassing to post it.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Precision matters to Larry Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
