SACD over HDMI cable performance
Polkitup2
Posts: 1,637
I recently experimented with using my Sony Blu-ray player to play SACDs over HDMI to my DAC and was impressed with how well it worked and sounded. I have decent interconnects and power cables, but always thought that any inexpensive but well built HDMI cable would sound the same as a higher end HDMI cable. Has anyone ever tried a higher end HDMI cable for audio and noticed improvements compared to a less expensive HDMI cable?
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Very interesting.
I always use the rca outputs for my sacd/dvd-a & cd which uses the player’s dac.
Used to use the balanced output when I had a preamp and amp that would take those connections.
When you use hdmi to send the signal from the disc spinner what piece does the conversion?
Never mind, saw you’re using an external sac. -
Correct, my understanding is that my Sony UBP-800mk2 outputs DSD 64 from the SACD which is then decoded by my T+A DAC 200 DAC.
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Nice that you have a dac that will extract the dsd directly. I have to use a "chinese-cheater-box" hdmi to IIS extractor with my Topping DX-7 Pro + dac to get mine but its worth it. Even listening to regular CDs sounds better. I have the same Sony but prefer my Oppo BDP-95 because I think it'll last longer due to its build quality.
Anyway, yes, I use AudioQuest Carbon hdmi cables. Their 48 Gbps speed is probably the reason why they sound better. DSD needs faster speed due to the larger files.Polk SDA-1Cs with RD0194-1 upgrade tweeters, SoniCaps, Clarity PX, Gimpod boards, Cardas BPs, Erse inductors, Canare 4S11 IC; Michi P5; Yamaha M-80; Yamaha CD-S1000; Oppo BDP-95; Sony UBP-X800M2; EverSolo DMP-A6; Topping DX-7 Pro +; Technics SL-1400 with Ortofon 2M Bronze PnP; Vincent Pho 701; PS Audio Dectet; AudioQuest Red River ICs; AudioQuest NRG-Z3 PCs; RapcoHorizon High Def High 413-Strand 10AWG Speaker Cable; Auralex Isolation Pads -
~ 12 years ago, I modded a Denon 3910 to export PCM and native DSD to my DIY DAC. I used a short generic CAT (network) patch cord. It would play PCM fine but not DSD. DSD operates in MHz while PCM is KHz. For example, DSD64 is 2.8224 MHz or 64 times the CD audio rate of 44.1 kHz.
I ended up with a Blue Jeans CAT6 data cable and it worked fine. They explained the wire in my generic patch cord may be good but sometimes the terminations were poor. They used an expensive tester to ensure the cable you got from them passed the frequency test. Their tested, certified cables were not that expensive either.
You need a one-bit DAC to play native DSD. Without it, the DAC chip must convert DSD to PCM. Nothing wrong with that although some do a better job than others so it's worthwhile to compare PCM to converted DSD and hear what sounds best.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I wish there was a manufacturer that would have made an SACD player for my car.
I have a Kenwood Excelon that would play DVD-A but no SACD.
Haven’t checked lately but I’m guessing half of my cd collection contains SACD, DVD-A and Blu-Ray Audio.
Just one of my wish list items. -
Personally speaking, most of my SACD's are OOP as well as a vast majority of my CD's. The last place I'd be putting them is in my car CD player. That is why all my CD's are burnt to a CDr for my vehicle.
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IIRC the Sony MEX-DV2000 head unit, discontinued, would play SACD. It was argued that you'd need a real well insulated car to enjoy the benefits.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Not sure if this answers your question exactly, but once I modded my Oppo 103D to export the I2S signal, I had a few AQ Ruby and Pearl HDMI cables laying around, which I tried first. Then tried the Carbon from my TV which made a slight improvement.
Since this was an I2S output, I wanted to give the Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryosilver HDMI I2S cable a try and it was quite the improvent. Just the overall smoothness, clarity and information retrieval from a rebook CD is worth the jump, SACD is also very good. I have the 103D output to the Directstream Sr. The RAL cable is one of the best cable upgrades I have made.
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I will be to test for myself in a few days as I have an audioquest carbon HDMI incoming.
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SCompRacer wrote: »IIRC the Sony MEX-DV2000 head unit, discontinued, would play SACD. It was argued that you'd need a real well insulated car to enjoy the benefits.
Thanks.
Checked out that Sony.
It plays dvd-a like my kenwood but from the specs no sacd, dang. -
skipshot12 wrote: »
Thanks.
Checked out that Sony.
It plays dvd-a like my kenwood but from the specs no sacd, dang.
Which is super strange as DVD-a was a competitor to SACD. -
DVD-A is playable on dvd players.
The Kenwood and that Sony are CD/DVD players. -
skipshot12 wrote: »DVD-A is playable on dvd players.
The Kenwood and that Sony are CD/DVD players.
Yes I get that, you could play the DVD layer. I wasn't aware that any Sony would play DVD-a layer. -
I’m not certain myself and assuming.
Pretty much going by my Marantz, pioneer & Oppo players do.
You know what happens….. -
Good test is to try the 24/96 discs like John Lee Hooker.
It’s a DVD-A disc and it plays in my z kenwood car player. That kenwood is not a stock unit that came with the car though, quite a few steps up.
They’re actually labeled as DAD. -
My Sony UBP-800M2 Blu Ray player is supposed to plays DVD-A as well as SACD. I still have a number of DVD-A disks, but have yet to try playing one.
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skipshot12 wrote: »I’m not certain myself and assuming.
Pretty much going by my Marantz, pioneer & Oppo players do.
You know what happens…..
Oppo players do in fact play the DVD-a layer, they are like the older Denon's they are "Universal" players. I'm not sure about Pioneer or Marantz.My Sony UBP-800M2 Blu Ray player is supposed to plays DVD-A as well as SACD. I still have a number of DVD-A disks, but have yet to try playing one.
Ineresting, it is fairly recent. correct? -
Yep, within the last couple of years regarding the Sony UBP-800M2.
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My Sony UBP-800M2 Blu Ray player is supposed to plays DVD-A as well as SACD. I still have a number of DVD-A disks, but have yet to try playing one.
I have the same player and it plays dvd-a and the SACD.
L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800 -
Our home players
Marantz DV9600 plays CD, DVD-A, DAD & SACD.
Marantz BD8002 plays CD, DVD-A, DAD, Blu-Ray but not SACD.
Pioneer DV-AX10, from 2001, plays CD, DVD-A, DAD, SACD but not Blu-Ray.
Oppo 105D plays everything.
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The Marantz 8002 will only play the DVD layer of a DVD-A, it does however play Divx if you remember that very short lived medium.
The Marantz DV9600 is a uni-player like the Pioneer DV-AX10. The AX10 was a $4000 when new according what I see.The BD8002 supports BD, DVD, CD audio, MP3, WMA, JPEG, and Divx -
What is the DVD layer on a DVD-Audio disc?
I’ll assume you meant it doesn’t play DVD-A… the BD8002?
I’ll have to throw one of my dvd-a discs in and refresh my memory, been a while since she’s been in rotation.
Could have swore it played John Lee Hooker’s Boom Boom DAD 24/96 but, I was wrong once back in 75….
Sure wish y’all on Polk lived closer to me, that would be a bet a frosty beverage get together meet 😬
No idea what divx is or WMA?
Are they audio discs?
Close on the new price of a DV-AX10, $6000 new.
Great review of that sucker on Stereopile in 2002.
My DV9600 will play surround SACD & 2-channel SACD where my DV-AX10 will only play two channel SACD.
The DV-AX10 plays both surround DVD-A & 2-channel DVD-A as does the DV9600.
Both the Marantz 9600 & 8002 were $2000 new. -
Like SACD if it is a hybrid disc having both CD and a SACD layer your CD player will play the CD layer and not the SACD layer. Some discs have multiple layers. A dedicated or universal player can play up to two different DVD-A layers or more if it has been encoded that way. On some DVD-A discs you have a 24bit 94kHz layer and a 24bit 192kHz layer.
This explains some of it. DVD-A was made to be able to play on all DVD machines BUT only some machines that had the "chip" to get to the DVD-A layers of the higher sampling and bit rates.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio
On my Denon 3910 I had a dedicated DVD-A and SACD light that lit up depending on the layer.
If I didn't pick the high rez DVD audio layer in the menu it would just play it as Dolby digital. -
Hybrid discs will play the cd layer by default?
Would have to choose the sacd layer manually to play default cd layer?
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Well most you go into the menu and pick a default layer. So if you have a SACD player you're picking whether or not you want the 2ch or 5ch layer OR down mix to 2ch if you do not have a multi-channel set up. But yes if you only have a CD player it defaults to 2ch CD layer.
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From memory….
Only player I had to go into the menu was the dv-ax10.
When playing dvd-a it would default to surround, even though it was strictly a
2-channel system.
Would have to pick the two channel layer of the dvd-a disc every time.
And, it had to be through a connected monitor, could not get to it via the screen on the face.
That was aggravating…
My Oppo would detect automatically that the system was two channel, never had to enter the menu to tell it that, playing dvd-a discs.
Same with sacd multichannel discs, it auto went to two channel, on the Oppo.
Don’t remember on the dv9600 or the bd8002.
I’m not positive about the Oppo,
Maybe it defaults to two channel?
Possible if I went back to a surround system that I’d have to specify surround not stereo thru the Oppo menu. 🤔
In both sacd & dvd-a?
Long time since I surround sounded it. -
^ Last time we had the surround set up was through the dv-ax10, maybe 10+ years ago.
Mostly for movies, never really was very impressed with surround sound when it came to music.
Seemed like only certain albums were worth the effort…. Pink Floyd was an exception.
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Great experiment! Using your Sony Blu-ray player for SACD playback over HDMI is a solid move, especially if your DAC supports DSD over HDMI.
As for HDMI cables, the debate over their impact on audio quality is real in the audiophile world. Technically, HDMI transmits digital signals (1s and 0s), so in theory, a well-built budget HDMI cable should sound the same as a high-end one—but in practice, things like shielding, conductor quality, and clock signal integrity can affect jitter and noise, which might subtly impact soundstage and detail retrieval.
Some high-end HDMI cables use better shielding to reduce interference, higher purity copper or silver conductors, and improved internal clocking to minimize jitter. Whether or not you’ll hear the difference depends on your system’s resolution and how susceptible your DAC is to HDMI jitter.
Have you tried any mid-to-high-end HDMI cables, or are you considering one? Something like an AudioQuest Vodka or Wireworld Platinum Starlight could be interesting to test if you’re curious.
