Question about onboard DAC vs external DAC
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CH46E
Posts: 3,579
Since I burned up my Ifi Blue Zen with a 12v power supply instead of a 5v, I purchased and have now a IFI Zen One Signature DAC with optic, coax and Bluetooth inputs.
I also have a Marantz UDP7007 disc player. I've been using analog out to the Anthem tube preamp. Specs here.
Now that the Ifi Zen One Signature is here, should I run a optic out from the Marantz to do the DAC or let the Marantz do the DAC? The Marantz is a bit older.
The specs for the Ifi can be seen here.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-one-signature/
Thanks for any advice.
I also have a Marantz UDP7007 disc player. I've been using analog out to the Anthem tube preamp. Specs here.
Now that the Ifi Zen One Signature is here, should I run a optic out from the Marantz to do the DAC or let the Marantz do the DAC? The Marantz is a bit older.
The specs for the Ifi can be seen here.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-one-signature/
Thanks for any advice.
Comments
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I know this is going to sound like I’m being a smart a$$, but I’m truly not. My advice would be to do it however sounds best to you.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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I know this is going to sound like I’m being a smart a$$, but I’m truly not. My advice would be to do it however sounds best to you.
That exact thought went through my mind several times while making that post. Just want to know if I was missing some huge amounts of information. I'd like to think the 10+ year newer DAC would be better for SACDs and DVD-Audios that I have. I'm looking into qobuz (or what ever that is) and Tidal to stream from the laptop via the USB cord.
I now have everything I need to set up my TT and new stylus. So thats next. -
I would advise against optical (in this situation only). Other than that? Take Paul's advice. It's solid.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I would advise against optical (in this situation only). Other than that? Take Paul's advice. It's solid.
Tom
I can also do coax... ??? -
Don’t overthink it. Listen. Sometimes the difference is immediate and it’s an easy choice. Sometimes it’s more subtle and takes time. Don’t be afraid to try one for a full week, then switch for a week. That’s the true luxury of having gear in house.I know this is going to sound like I’m being a smart a$$, but I’m truly not. My advice would be to do it however sounds best to you.
That exact thought went through my mind several times while making that post. Just want to know if I was missing some huge amounts of information. I'd like to think the 10+ year newer DAC would be better for SACDs and DVD-Audios that I have. I'm looking into qobuz (or what ever that is) and Tidal to stream from the laptop via the USB cord.
I now have everything I need to set up my TT and new stylus. So thats next.
Make your decision based on how the music and the gear makes you feel. So many people get caught up in specs and upgrades. If the updates make you feel better about the gear, that’s totally valid. But you should feel connected with your system. That’s the big thing that gets overlooked with the influence and specs.
Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
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Pick whichever one has more of your favorite genre of music available on it.
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Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
I anecdotally have noticed more people moving to Qobuz for hifi. But personally I rank “Connect” to a streamer as a deal breaker, so I stay with Tidal.Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
Me thinks Tidal will lose a big marketshare when they actually come out with Qobuz connect. Not everyone likes Apple products and Tidal connect is very convenient for those who operate the rig via a laptop or computer.
For sound, I lean toward Qobuz. For convenience, I lean toward Tidal.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
Not to be disrespectful, but if your source is a laptop or phone it won't matter which service you use. Go with the least costly because the compromise in sound is the laptop or phone. Qobuz probably beats out Tidal for overall SQ, but again your source components won't give you the best, so if Tidal is less expensive just go with them.
I'm just being honest
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Agreed on the source
In this hobby the source is everything and that's even before it reaches the streamer.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
Not to be disrespectful, but if your source is a laptop or phone it won't matter which service you use. Go with the least costly because the compromise in sound is the laptop or phone. Qobuz probably beats out Tidal for overall SQ, but again your source components won't give you the best, so if Tidal is less expensive just go with them.
I'm just being honest
H9
A great part of the current state of streaming is pricing is leveling out.
Currently Tidal and Qobuz are within 20 cents per month (with 12 month sub from Qobuz).
Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
I find using the MiND 2 app from my phone or iPad to the Simaudio 680 D to be superior to my hardwired connection from my computer to the DAC. The difference is not much, really only apparent on the upper end such as cymbals and a bit more defined space around instruments and voices.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
Not to be disrespectful, but if your source is a laptop or phone it won't matter which service you use. Go with the least costly because the compromise in sound is the laptop or phone. Qobuz probably beats out Tidal for overall SQ, but again your source components won't give you the best, so if Tidal is less expensive just go with them.
I'm just being honest
H9
I appreciate the info. I thought that if I'm streaming a dsd file from a PC, it would only send the content as it's recorded and the DAC would handle it from there. But you are saying the PC will inflict its own flavor? I guess kind of like one CD player to another?? -
It adds noise.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
It adds noise.
Tom
That may very well be why streaming to the Simaudio sounds better than coming from my PC, even though I use an Audioquest Diamond USB cable.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Computers have an absurd amount of noise- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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I have seen on some other sites where people say a streamer is just a computer, so there is no difference. I have to say my MacBook Pro going into the LampizatOr DAC sounds remarkable and very equal to my CD player going through the same DAC. But, at the same time, I can’t help but wonder how much better a dedicated streamer would be.
Guess that’s the curse of this hobby.
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
Much of that depends on the gear, topologies and configuration. Then there is the filtering and incoming noise from the A/C line to the noise on the cable that feeds your signal.
It's not just limited to all of that though. There are many, many variables at play here. System synergy on each setup/playback mechanism as well.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
displayname wrote: »Is there a general consensus of Tidal vs Qobuz? Will use the laptop and my phone to run through the Zen One.
Not to be disrespectful, but if your source is a laptop or phone it won't matter which service you use. Go with the least costly because the compromise in sound is the laptop or phone. Qobuz probably beats out Tidal for overall SQ, but again your source components won't give you the best, so if Tidal is less expensive just go with them.
I'm just being honest
H9
A great part of the current state of streaming is pricing is leveling out.
Currently Tidal and Qobuz are within 20 cents per month (with 12 month sub from Qobuz).
Then I would go with which has more of your music. I love Qobuz for the SQ, but it does lack some artists and some artists full catalogs. Once I'm in the new place and everything is set up, I may also pick up another subscription to fill in the holes for Qobuz.
I was trying to stream Bob Seger for my gf. She didn't remember the song "Strut", Very little Bob Seger on Qobuz or the search feature was defective. Had to Youtube a horrid sounding track. I thought the L600's were going to disown me for putting a highly compressed track through them.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I have seen on some other sites where people say a streamer is just a computer, so there is no difference. I have to say my MacBook Pro going into the LampizatOr DAC sounds remarkable and very equal to my CD player going through the same DAC. But, at the same time, I can’t help but wonder how much better a dedicated streamer would be.
Guess that’s the curse of this hobby.
A lot better.
I have the Blue Sound Node, a very good streamer. Cleaning up all the spurious noise (you don't know you have it until it's gone) with cables, etherREGEN switch, linear power supplies, hard wired cables, power conditioning, etc Is a HUGE leap. You won't believe it until you hear it (or rather lack of hearing it)
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
You lost me there.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Yes, you can use a 75-ohm coax cable (instead of optical) to connect the digital out RCA on the Marantz to the DAC, and bypass the onboard DAC in the CD player.
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Ah, I hadn't heard of it referred to as a coax cable before. It is usually referred to as a digital cable. Thanks for clarifying.
When I think of coax, I think of hooking up my TV to a satellite or the cable modem.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Actually is the same cable, 50 or 75 ohm. Just a different connector- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Actually is the same cable, 50 or 75 ohm. Just a different connector
This is true but most consumer equipment uses RCA connectors, which aren't a true 75ohm. If BNC is used a true 75ohm can be achieved. -
Correct, I'm just saying the connector your cable box uses is called an F type of I'm not mistaken.
Bnc, 1.5m is the way!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Terminology matters.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
It can be difference between eating grandpaw and eating with grandpaw.
For sure!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
