Getting closer to the music... Mcintosh C 2300
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nooshinjohn
Posts: 25,104
Finding the right balance in my two-channel system is something that challenges us all, and when we find that piece that finally unlocks the full potential of the ones and zeros or the waveform pressed into a thin black piece of plastic, there is a sense of peace and accomplishment. It is the reward of years of careful thought and sometimes happenstance or just pure luck.
A couple years ago now, I made the radical decision to move on from several well-regarded pieces of equipment, including the SDA-SRS 1.2TL's. I have been exceedingly happy with that call, as the Legend L800's are a fantastic speaker. My Arcam AVR20 has performed admirably as a preamp in two-channel, but the DAC it contains was somewhat flat compared to listening to CD's.
This led to my experimenting with DACs from Simaudio, eventually settling on the superb 680D, but that also opened up a Pandora's Box of sorts. The Simaudio had so much more to offer up than the Arcam could allow to show. I had run headlong into a brick wall. Another change was needed...
In came the very well-regarded Pass Labs XP20. I had dreamed of owning one for years and eagerly set it up, waited for 2 days for it to finally settle in. The disappointment was quick to find me as I found it and the Arcam to sound so similar as to be almost indistinguishable from one another. Several weeks went by with the same perception holding firm in my mind. I pulled it from my rig and after much research and soul searching over what it was I wanted to get from my listening, I settled in on the Mcintosh C2300.
A couple years ago now, I made the radical decision to move on from several well-regarded pieces of equipment, including the SDA-SRS 1.2TL's. I have been exceedingly happy with that call, as the Legend L800's are a fantastic speaker. My Arcam AVR20 has performed admirably as a preamp in two-channel, but the DAC it contains was somewhat flat compared to listening to CD's.
This led to my experimenting with DACs from Simaudio, eventually settling on the superb 680D, but that also opened up a Pandora's Box of sorts. The Simaudio had so much more to offer up than the Arcam could allow to show. I had run headlong into a brick wall. Another change was needed...
In came the very well-regarded Pass Labs XP20. I had dreamed of owning one for years and eagerly set it up, waited for 2 days for it to finally settle in. The disappointment was quick to find me as I found it and the Arcam to sound so similar as to be almost indistinguishable from one another. Several weeks went by with the same perception holding firm in my mind. I pulled it from my rig and after much research and soul searching over what it was I wanted to get from my listening, I settled in on the Mcintosh C2300.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
Comments
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It was my belief that staying with solid state preamplifiers would continue to provide little or no improvement, so I decided to explore tube preamplifiers instead. My selection was a hopeful one, but because of the brick wall I though I had found, I went into this believing I had found the end of what the Legends were capable of and thinking it was time to look for better speakers. I could not have been more wrong in that assumption.
The McIntosh C2300 represents the last analog only tube preamplifier that the company produced. The C2500 which replaced it has a built-in DAC, and also some modest reliability issues, from what I have read online. Because of the Moon 680D, I did not feel the need to push further up the chain. It arrived in the originals factory packaging and in pristine condition. Unboxing it was easy, but finding it a home in the cabinet required moving a bunch of stuff around and a few hours to put everything back together. Once that was accomplished, I powered everything up and waited for the warm-up cycle to finish up. After a few more hours, I sat down for a quick listen.
The profound improvement I had been looking for jumped from the speakers and captivated me from the very first note. Quite literally everything seemed to stand out, all within its proper space, and within a soundscape that was as real and balanced as I have ever heard in my space. McIntosh has a distinct “house-sound” that some love and some don’t. The C2300 is not that Mac. It imparts almost none of the syrupy warmth you might expect. In my rig, it is very neutral. Everything seems to flow through it so naturally that if you close your eyes and allow yourself to drift into the music, you can become convinced that you are there.
One of the fun things for me in this hobby is listening to music that I think I know well. When an upgrade is made, going back to those favorites always show me there is still more to hear that I did not know was there. Abbey Road is one of those recordings that always seems to have more to give. I can hear exactly where everyone was at in the studio. I can hear the studio itself and how the sound behaves within that space. I can almost smell the pungent aroma of the smoke being passed around.
Long story short, the McIntosh C2300 is a transformational piece of equipment. It has forever altered the way I experience sound in my home. There are a few tweaks that need to be made, such as a power conditioner and some other things, but this is the end of the road. I believe there is no more I can get out of this setup, unless I tear it all down and start over. Unless I hit the lottery, that day will never come.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Man oh man that's a beauty!! I can see why you feel like you've reached the Holy Grail. I'll bet it sounds incredible to say the least. I always liked the older units vs newer...that old school Mac sound is really enjoyable. Maybe someday. Congrats & enjoy!!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Being no stranger to tubes John, I'm a bit surprised you went off that beaten path for a while, only to re-discover it. Congrats on finding the pieces that jive well together. She's a beaut.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
"The profound improvement I had been looking for jumped from the speakers and captivated me from the very first note."..........I too have felt this way, but nowhere on the level you are at. Nice!Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub. -
Being no stranger to tubes John, I'm a bit surprised you went off that beaten path for a while, only to re-discover it. Congrats on finding the pieces that jive well together. She's a beaut.
I have not had a tube pre since at least 2010. I felt my tube amps had the bases covered on that, but the L800's needed a little more I guess. The move from all analog to 95 percent digital requires a change in direction to get the best from it. As it stands now, The sound coming from my room is the type of sound that would have drawn me in to have a listen at an audio show. Trimming out the room, and a power conditioner should optimize what I have and keep me happy for a very long time.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Nice piece! and Congrats on your new found love of music. I'm sure it sounds stellar . . .AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampi Baltic 4
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Looks awesome and glad you found the magic to unlock your L800s! Following your journey, I now have much to consider regarding the Pass X1 in my system.____________________________________________________________
polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, ADCOM GFA 7807 + 5400, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050 -
That's really great to hear, John. We all long for that experience of plugging in new gear and being floored. I've often wondered when looking at your signature whether that Arcam AVR truly suited the rest of your gear. Not that I know anything about the Arcam. Just that an AVR seemed out of place there. The 680d got you to that point, apparently. Congratulations.SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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Jetmaker737 wrote: »That's really great to hear, John. We all long for that experience of plugging in new gear and being floored. I've often wondered when looking at your signature whether that Arcam AVR truly suited the rest of your gear. Not that I know anything about the Arcam. Just that an AVR seemed out of place there. The 680d got you to that point, apparently. Congratulations.
Thanks!
The AVR is truly no slouch. If I were not looking to optimize my rig after getting out of vinyl, I could have been very happy with it. If I had to go back to just that, I could still make a go of it for a while. It really does sound good.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Congrats. I have always like the looks of them!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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That’s a very sweet unit !! What amp are you using it with ?
have fun dude ! -
See... Life after pass labs is good! 😆 I keed I keed
Very nice looking unit- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »
That’s an awesome Carver Tube setup ! sweet ! I still have my Carver designed Sunfire Cinema Grand which has somewhat of a tubelike sound and tons of power which I would like to re purpose someday for a Magneplanar system ! -
mikejedi0619 wrote: »nooshinjohn wrote: »
That’s an awesome Carver Tube setup ! sweet ! I still have my Carver designed Sunfire Cinema Grand which has somewhat of a tubelike sound and tons of power which I would like to re purpose someday for a Magneplanar system !
If you can set them up right, the L800 can compete with the Maggies in terms of transparency and and soundstage. The Legends have better imaging, mids and bass. They also do not need to be 6 feet into the room to sound their best.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
When I had my C2300 I replaced the stock tubes with Telefunken smooth plates which I thought were much better, but expensive and hard to find. I later went with the Gold Lions which I also thought were better than the stock tubes.
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When I had my C2300 I replaced the stock tubes with Telefunken smooth plates which I thought were much better, but expensive and hard to find. I later went with the Gold Lions which I also thought were better than the stock tubes.
What did you move on to?
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I moved from the C2300 to the Audio Research LS28SE. Very different units, the Mac is slightly warm and musical while the ARC is more neutral and transparent. The ARC resolves details beyond what the Mac can and had me listening to my music collection for the details I had never heard before. To me the ARC sounds more alive and real than the Mac, but not as smooth and pleasant sounding as the Mac.
I recall having to carefully position my speakers to keep the ARC from sounding too bright for my ears whereas the Mac sounded great without those considerations.
Aesthetically and functionally, I preferred the Mac. The Mac just looks great. The ARC looks more like a piece of lab equipment. The ARC has too high of gain for modern source devices which causes some issues with volume control and in fact I sent it to ARC to have them reduce the gain. The Mac has more control over source input levels which are adjustable +/- 6 dbs.
The biggest thing I miss is the built in phono pre-amp on the C2300. It is very good.
All in all, my current preference is the ARC, as that detail is addicting, but I see they just released the Mac C2800 which has me lusting for Mac again. I sometimes think I am missing the synergy that occurs with having the same manufacturer for the pre-amp and amp as I use a Mac MC462 amp.
I think you will enjoy the C2300 for many years as I did.
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The Mac has established itself as the last preamp I will ever buy. It pulls everything together. I have no doubt that I am getting every last ounce of musicality out of the L800's at this point. This is, by far, the best sound I have ever heard in my home, and better sound than almost any system I have experienced in a dealer showroom or at a show. I know there is better out there, but the law of diminishing returns says it is not worth chasing.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
You're not done John, none of us are. I've said what you said above at least 3 times. I stopped saying it, because there is always something different, better, and/or more appealing around the corner. It's part of the audio disease that at some point in time, no matter how good things are sounding we move to different gear.
Granted, rolling tubes can quell some of urges to get something different since tubes can change a rigs presentation and sound like a new piece of gear to battle the familiarity of listening to the same gear over a period of time.
It's great to finally be content. I know I am, but at some point in the future things will change.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
