Since we are exploring classical music

TroyD wrote: »

So, think of it like this.

Think of a song…. Sweet Jane, for example. Do you like The Velvet Underground version or The Cowboy Junkies??

The conductor basically interprets how a piece is played….

Both those versions are good but being Lous tune I’ll give props his way! 😉

DaveHo wrote: »

Let me relate an experience of my own. Back in the day, the Reading Symphony Orchestra had Werner Klemperer as a guest conductor numerous times. There may have been some queues during transitions, but mostly the musicians just played without lifting their heads.

His father, Otto, was considered a great conductor. You probably knew that. Werner was, mostly, an actor.

I have been following, on YouTube, a channel produced by Dave Hurwitz called: "The Ultimate Classical Music Guide by Dave Hurwitz" and have learned a great deal. He will take a piece of classical music, such as a Beethoven symphony and explain why some conductors and some orchestras do a better job than others. He has written many books on classical composers and how to enjoy their music. He has an enormous CD collection and will do a countdown on the best recordings. The video fidelity is a bit murky for some reason and he can go into minute details, but he is never boring. He comes across as genuinely wanting people to learn about classical music and to develop an enjoyment. He can be really funny and will sometimes poke gentle fun at audiophiles.

The conductor is every bit as much of an artist as the folks with the instruments. The conductor determines the reading of the work and can add their own artistic statement. Listen to Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra, Dorati in Minneapolis, or Reiner and the CSO and you may hear the same notes, but other differences are readily apparent as noted above.

^^ Excellent!

I’ll have to look and see which Symphony it was, but the reading materials of one of Beethoven’s Symphony’s indicate that orchestra members declined to play it b/c Beethoven was not appreciated as a conductor. He kept trying to conduct, but they would not cooperate b/c he had imprecise baton gestures (get your minds out of the gutter 😂) which made it difficult to follow his lead.

Only once he stepped down would they play the symphony he wrote lead by another conductor.

Will get back once I locate the info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOHl_X_OoIk

Classical music is best LIVE, you get to feel and observe...

Our recordings at home serve more to remind us of that, at least for me.

^^^^ Entire video is outstanding!

During an actual performance, the conductor may seem like a puppet, but it's all the hours and hours of rehearsal beforehand where he/they really put their imprint on a piece. They have to get an entire orchestra of musicians on the same page with timing, crescendos/decrescendos, dynamics of different orchestra sections during certain passages, etc. Musicians will write notes, or add highlights, on their sheets of music during the practice sessions to mirror what the conductor wants reflected throughout the course of a piece of music. And remember, these pieces last several minutes, with typically lots of variation throughout...these are not 3-minute pop songs. It takes a lot of concentration and focus to make it through, and Lord help you if you get behind, or lost, especially if the piece is moving quickly. I've done some choral work over the years, including with a symphony, so have first-hand experience with this. It can be a bit like herding cats.

One metaphor that could be used is like having different chefs cook the same dish with the same recipe. Each version will taste slightly different.

Great thread! In a similar vein to Beethoven not being appreciated as a conductor, my Dad once told me a story about Fritz Reiner (Chicago Symphony), which I haven’t verified, but assume that it’s true. Apparently, Fritz was noted for having extremely minuscule baton movements. Once, during a rehearsal, some musician in the back (a percussionist?) took out a pair of binoculars. Fritz spotted this and fired the guy on the spot! Talk about humor impaired.

Ken, I was reading something awhile back about Furtwangler and Toscanini not being mutual admirers.....interesting stuff. I've been gathering Furtwangler recordings lately and just am fascinated by his performances.....I've said before, if his recording of the adagio from Bruckner's 7th doesn't move you, there is something wrong with you.