Schiit 2-Channel Mini-Review
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sparky14
Posts: 23
Somebody asked for a quick review of my 2 channel Schiit system...here goes.
Here's my lineup:
Amp - Schiit Aegir
Pre - Schiit Saga S
EQ - Schiit Loki Mini+
Sources - PC through a Sabaj D5 Dac, Toshiba SD9200 CD/HDCD, Yamaha DVD-S2700 SACD/DVD-A
Speakers - Polk R200 in my office (on desk), and when I need it loud, Tekton Mini Lore Monitors.
Aegir - All the hype is real. It is just one super clean sounding amp. Great detail and definition. Many are concerned about heat, I've had it on for 8 hours per day, and it does get quite warm, but nothing extreme. The 2nd concern is the power level at just 20 watts, and that is true - it will not drive the R200 to a loud level. At full volume, at my desk, it is too loud. But even at 75%, it is a listenable volume. My normal is at 50% volume. When switching from the 86db Polks to the 95db Tektons - now it gets loud. Terrific amp, just be sure you are aware of the power limitations. I have a 2nd Aegir in the back of my mind, but I see Schiit just raised their amps by $100. But for my desk setup, 1 is plenty.
Saga S - very quiet preamp except for the clicking of the volume relays during dial turns. It was a bit shocking at first, but I've gotten used to it. Otherwise, it is a pretty simple preamp which serves it's functions without adding or subtracting from the sound.
Loki Mini+ - a 4 channel EQ. Read through the Schiit FAQs to see how this thing works, if I read it right it is like a bell curve adjustment. You start with a wide bell curve at the lowest adjustment, increasing to a tight bell curve at the highest adjustment. In comparing it to my old EQ, a NuMark with some 12 frequency adjustments, the LM+ is a more subtle adjustment obviously. But it is dead quiet, while my NuMark does get some scratchies when some of the sliders are moved. The LM+ works I will admit, but is better for fine tuning. I will say, this little guy gets HOT! That is what I expected from the Aegir, not the LM+.
That's the mini-review. Glad to attempt to answer any questions.
Here's my lineup:
Amp - Schiit Aegir
Pre - Schiit Saga S
EQ - Schiit Loki Mini+
Sources - PC through a Sabaj D5 Dac, Toshiba SD9200 CD/HDCD, Yamaha DVD-S2700 SACD/DVD-A
Speakers - Polk R200 in my office (on desk), and when I need it loud, Tekton Mini Lore Monitors.
Aegir - All the hype is real. It is just one super clean sounding amp. Great detail and definition. Many are concerned about heat, I've had it on for 8 hours per day, and it does get quite warm, but nothing extreme. The 2nd concern is the power level at just 20 watts, and that is true - it will not drive the R200 to a loud level. At full volume, at my desk, it is too loud. But even at 75%, it is a listenable volume. My normal is at 50% volume. When switching from the 86db Polks to the 95db Tektons - now it gets loud. Terrific amp, just be sure you are aware of the power limitations. I have a 2nd Aegir in the back of my mind, but I see Schiit just raised their amps by $100. But for my desk setup, 1 is plenty.
Saga S - very quiet preamp except for the clicking of the volume relays during dial turns. It was a bit shocking at first, but I've gotten used to it. Otherwise, it is a pretty simple preamp which serves it's functions without adding or subtracting from the sound.
Loki Mini+ - a 4 channel EQ. Read through the Schiit FAQs to see how this thing works, if I read it right it is like a bell curve adjustment. You start with a wide bell curve at the lowest adjustment, increasing to a tight bell curve at the highest adjustment. In comparing it to my old EQ, a NuMark with some 12 frequency adjustments, the LM+ is a more subtle adjustment obviously. But it is dead quiet, while my NuMark does get some scratchies when some of the sliders are moved. The LM+ works I will admit, but is better for fine tuning. I will say, this little guy gets HOT! That is what I expected from the Aegir, not the LM+.
That's the mini-review. Glad to attempt to answer any questions.
Polk R200 SpeakersSchiit Saga S & AegirCr*pload of old disc players for my old CDs.
Comments
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Nice review. I have a sys since at one point I needed to make 1 set of RCA's into 2 sets. That thing was dead quiet. Couldn't tell the difference if it was in the system or not. Schiit makes some decent stuff to fit most people's budget from low to high.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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FYI & FWIW, the parameter that describes a tall, skinny vs. a low, wide "bell shaped curve" (Gaussian or Lorentzian distribution) is called "Q".
It's a characteristic of a resonant circuit -- which is what you're dealing with in an 'equalizer' (tone control) like the Schiit Loki/Lokius (AFAIK).
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I've owned some Schitt over the years. Been most impressed by the dedicated headphone amps. Still have my Asgard 2, the older class A unit, and don't think I'll ever move it. Makes for a good pre in a single source system as well as a killer hp amp. Have had Jotunheim 2 which I was hoping to use as a pre to switch between single ended and balanced amps. Hated it for that purpose. Have a SYS and it is indeed transparent AFAIKT.
As far as the Loki, I don't have any experience. I will say though, with the rest of your gear, why do you need it? An eq is just a bandaid for a mismatched system. -
EQ and balance controls are necessary tools that help adjust for imperfect frequency response resulting from room/positioning anomalies (not to mention flawed equipment designs).
It’s the old-school analog (mostly) version of DIRAC.
Curiosity and trial-and-error has yielded much better measured and subjective listening experiences for me using these tools.
I’m pretty certain most people have no idea how much better even expensive systems should sound, just because they shun EQ and balance controls or don’t know how to use them properly.
CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
As far as the Loki, I don't have any experience. I will say though, with the rest of your gear, why do you need it? An eq is just a bandaid for a mismatched system.
I can't say that I needed it. I bought the Saga and Loki together used from a local seller.
Have you seen the Folkvangr headphone amp? I just noticed that one today, don't know if it is new or I just have not noticed it. Man, that one looks impressive.
Polk R200 SpeakersSchiit Saga S & AegirCr*pload of old disc players for my old CDs. -
I used to use equalizers back in the day, but later realized they were more in the signal path and prefer as little in the signal path as possible
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I used to use equalizers back in the day, but later realized they were more in the signal path and prefer as little in the signal path as possible
This is how I used to reason; however, ime, this is far less impacting to playback, than the more severe negative impacts of room, poor recordings, and imperfect equipment designs.
Did you have the ability to independently measure the frequency response of each channel at the listening seat back then?
The tools available nowadays make the implementation of EQ and balance much more effective (and simple) than they were a few decades ago for most users.
CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
I tried a Schiit Loki and didn't like what it did to the signal, even when it was in "bypass" mode. It also ran overly warm for an eq.
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I can’t speak to the Loki, but I’ve experimented with the BSR in (both with EQ applied and without) and out of the system and nothing veiled, additive, or subtractive is occurring.
I have spent considerable time obtaining appropriate frequency response in each channel and dialing in channel balance. So there is some work involved, but everything sounds so much better afterwards.
I attained a soundstage with acoustic foam treatments, but the EQ has resulted in perceptible imaging not just in the horizontal plane, but also front-to-back (which should be perceived with dipoles).
In my room there is significant boundary reinforcement for the left channel vs. the right channel, which also results in frequency response variations between each channel.
The boundary reinforcement on the left channel necessitated attenuation from 5 o’clock (i.e. fully open) down to 1 o’clock to sound balanced; while the right attenuator remains fully open.
This is interesting, because the listening seat is pretty ideally centered between the speakers. The loudness imbalance negatively impacted soundstaging/imaging.
Vocals that should have been perceived at center, were perceived strongly left of center; this would confuse where all the surrounding instruments were located as well. Once corrected, EQ/balance became indispensable for me.
For persons with a better room layout, where frequency response aberrations may be less of an issue, but maybe don’t have an ideally centered seating position, or one speaker has more boundary reinforcement than the other, it may be beneficial to experiment with the balance control on your preamp; if you lack this feature, an amplifier with built-in volume attentuation (e.g. Parasound, for example) would be another way to adjust balance.
I know I’m in the minority amongst most audiophiles on this topic, but I’m only encouraging an open mind. Experimentation is one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun.
For me this yielded results that are much more satisfying. YMMV.
Cheers!
Cheers!
CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
I tried a Schiit Loki and didn't like what it did to the signal, even when it was in "bypass" mode. It also ran overly warm for an eq.
An interesting collection of data points about this little gizmo.
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I know I’m in the minority amongst most audiophiles on this topic, but I’m only encouraging an open mind. Experimentation is one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun.
For me this yielded results that are much more satisfying. YMMV.
Cheers!
I haven't used an EQ for 2 channel in years but have used room correction for home theater more recently. I do know this, after listening to mega buck systems in hotel rooms at AXPONA there were some systems that really caught my ear that used room correction.
Emerald Physics CS3 MKII, REL T9, DSPeaker Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/05/03/axpona-2014-emerald-physics-and-ps-audio-dazzles/
Sanders Sound Systems
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/show-coverage/296-audioholics-axpona-2016-show-coverage
Someday I want to put something together using room correction. Many of us have non dedicated rooms that we can't put a lot of room treatments in. Products like these have caught my attention:
NAD C 658 Stream DAC, Preamp w/ Dirac Live room correction
https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-658-bluos-streaming-dac/
miniDSP SHD DSP-based network streamer w/ Dirac Live room correction
https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series
Lyngdorf Audio integrated amps w/ RoomPerfect room correction
https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-tdai-1120/
Anthem STR Integrated w/ Arc room correction
https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/model=str-integrated-amplifier/page=overview
2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
I know I’m in the minority amongst most audiophiles on this topic, but I’m only encouraging an open mind. Experimentation is one of the things that makes this hobby so much fun.
For me this yielded results that are much more satisfying. YMMV.
Cheers!
I haven't used an EQ for 2 channel in years but have used room correction for home theater more recently. I do know this, after listening to mega buck systems in hotel rooms at AXPONA there were some systems that really caught my ear that used room correction.
Emerald Physics CS3 MKII, REL T9, DSPeaker Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/05/03/axpona-2014-emerald-physics-and-ps-audio-dazzles/
Sanders Sound Systems
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/show-coverage/296-audioholics-axpona-2016-show-coverage
Someday I want to put something together using room correction. Many of us have non dedicated rooms that we can't put a lot of room treatments in. Products like these have caught my attention:
NAD C 658 Stream DAC, Preamp w/ Dirac Live room correction
https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-658-bluos-streaming-dac/
miniDSP SHD DSP-based network streamer w/ Dirac Live room correction
https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series
Lyngdorf Audio integrated amps w/ RoomPerfect room correction
https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-tdai-1120/
Anthem STR Integrated w/ Arc room correction
https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/model=str-integrated-amplifier/page=overview
Indeed.
I have a DBX Driverack PRO w/calibration mic, and don’t hear any sonic degradation with that in use either.CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
