Bi-Amp possibility...any thoughts on the subject
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pearsall001
Posts: 4,997
I have access to a used JAS Audio Bravo 2.4 SB tube amp at a fantastic price. My thoughts would be to use it along with my Parasound ZM 2350 class D amp to bi amp my KEF R3's. From what I can gather that combo can muster up some nice music.
Has anyone tried bi amping & what your thoughts might be. Nothing set in stone just a tad curious.
Has anyone tried bi amping & what your thoughts might be. Nothing set in stone just a tad curious.
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Ah man don't get me laughing 😂 I'm still recovering & still sore as heck & it hurts. 🤕 Please elaborate on your experience. I haven't found anything that wasn't pretty much positive about the bi amping process, either passive or active."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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I don't have any first hand experience with it. It just doesn't seem like a worthwhile avenue to peruse if you are trying to improve sound quality. High cost and complexity, with little auditory reward.
In my opinion it would make more sense to improve the quality of your streaming transport, or other areas of your system. -
I hear ya. Maybe I'm just bored knowing I have another 2-3 weeks sitting at home recovering staring me down. Looking for something to help pass the time.
My current setup has me smiling ear to ear so I'm not looking to make any changes there. I figured adding a nice tube amp will add a little"tubeyness" to the mix going the bi-amp route. One never knows!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
I’d say try it and see. You can always flip the JAS if you don’t like it.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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I've tried using a 200 watt per channel multichannel amp with 7 channels before and used 4 of the channels to "biamp" more than one type of speaker. I didn't notice anything beneficial compared to just running speakers with 2 of the channels. Using a dedicated 2 channel speaker produced much better sound because the amplification was higher quality in the stereo amp.
It can be fun to experiment, but I think a lot of people would say trying to get two different types of amps to sound right together really needs an active external crossover built. No harm in trying with what's available though. -
Phil, without a way to gain match the amps you're looking at a lot of bad sound. Even gain matched without an active crossover it's not really bi-amping.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If your that bored Phil, and need to keep the brain busy, give it a whirl. But I have to agree with the other guys on the final result.
You can also just try the tube amp on it's own.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Fantastic topic that has sparked a lot of great comments. This is one of those topics that the more you read the more confusing it can become. I've read plenty of success stories with guys mixing tube & SS amps in a passive bi-amping setup & a lot of stories saying the exact opposite. Maybe I just need to experiment to see what gives. Might be a waste of time & maybe not. I'm still kicking things around."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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When something is learned or discovered with one's own ears it's not a waste of time.
I'm going to engage in a little experiment of my own in the next couple weeks to strip out all of my $100 to $500 power cables and replace them with 14/3 AWG generic and hospital grade power cords with 15 amp UL ratings. Not sure if I'll hear a difference. One thing I am curious about is PS Audio used to make power cords with ferrite in the jackets as a shielding mechanism but stopped doing that for a reason in their later versions. My goal is to find out if the use of shielding in the old power cords has a pleasant effect, a negative effect, or no effect at all. It's been a long time since I did something like this but from what I recall the old PS Audio power cords did affect the sound but in a way I liked at the time. All it takes is some time to swap things out. -
pearsall001 wrote: »Fantastic topic that has sparked a lot of great comments. This is one of those topics that the more you read the more confusing it can become. I've read plenty of success stories with guys mixing tube & SS amps in a passive bi-amping setup & a lot of stories saying the exact opposite. Maybe I just need to experiment to see what gives. Might be a waste of time & maybe not. I'm still kicking things around.
You need an active crossover to do it right. You can use a passive line level crossover with attenuators to match gain, but it doesn't work as well on higher order crossovers. The thing with a passive line level crossover is the signal to noise ratio is better than an active, but you can have an impedence matching problem. If your talking about passive speaker level crossovers forget about it there isn't much if anything to be gained.
One of the best sounding systems I ever heard was actively bi-amped with audio research 610t monoblocks rated at over 600 watts per channel on the mids and highs and krell fob 750 mcx monoblocks on the bass. The amps were powering a pair of apogee diva panel speakers. -
Been doing it for years, have 4 friends been doing it for many years. First doing it without exterior crossover is mental masterbation. Also get one with gain control on each freq. This solves the amp balance issues. Its absolutely fantastic when done correctly, done on the cheep it sounds cheep! Done right it is amazing.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
Totally agree, FWIW. I keep dancin' to the brink of goin' active/biamp with the Frankenaltecs... if only I weren't so lazy.
Active XO would be (is) so easy with DSP tools nowadays... slopes, delay times, EQ, level matching -- all tuneable. A tweaker's delight -- or use real time room measurement tools and do it right!
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Marchand makes decent affordable active crossovers, there are better ones out there, but at a much higher price.
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Marchand makes decent affordable active crossovers, there are better ones out there, but at a much higher price.
That they do, and there's a fairly nice pair of vintage but well-regarded & pretty configurable EV XOs sittin' here, waiting for me to do something...
But, in 2021, I would seriously consider a more flexible and configurable (and, at least potentially, cheaper) solution than traditional active XOs -- especially if I werent' heck-bent
on active XO and bi/multi-amplification.
EV XOs by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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If you’re serious, before you start work on your
speakers, plan to run 2-3 dedicated power feeds for your system. Presently I have 3, I wish I ran 4. One day before I expand to 7.X in another room I’ll start w/a small dedicated power panel providing at least 6 to perhaps as many as 8 dedicated feeds
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/174880/tri-amped-rti-a7
You may differ on the tri amp claim as I’m using two stereo amps to drive 4 drivers per channel. The only parts the channels share are the transformer primary windings, power cord, and case. Each channel has dedicated secondary transformer windings, bridge rectifiers, and cap banks.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/175612/tri-amped-csi-a6
Read the ‘A6 thread to the end for the details.
I would encourage anyone not afraid of work that’s considering active bi or tri amping on any loudspeaker to forget your fear, drop your guard, and get busy.
The results are their own reward! I have no regrets!
TonyPost edited by gp4jesus onSamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
Minus the bi-amp thing, hows the recovery going Phil ?HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Minus the bi-amp thing, hows the recovery going Phil ?
Hey Tony,
Thanks for checking in on me 🙂 Us old geezers need to stick together 👍
I saw my Cardio Doc last week, saw my PCP yesterday & they both were very, very pleased with my progress.
I see my surgeon next Wed 4/28. He's the one that will give me the ok to drive, when I can return to work (not in any hurry).
Also will recommend cardo rehab schedule if necessary. I'm sure he'll set something up for me.
As a side note I started on a Keto diet along with 16/8 intermittent fasting about 2.5 months before I even knew I would need surgery. I'm down 31lbs (210 down to 179). I really think that has been a real help with my recovery.
I plan on continuing. My wife is so impressed with my results that she is starting also but on a modified version.
The Doc's can't get over the difference in my blood work since starting.
Cheers! 😎🎶
The bi-amping saga has been put on hold for the time being."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Sounds like a plan Phil, one that works for you anyway. Congrats man, glad to see your recovery is going extremely well. Amazing how much better things get when you drop the lbs.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Phil: I AM SO SORRY for missing mention of your health issues. You’re wise to approach a project of this magnitude at your pace and no one else’s.
Took me months of planning. Double and triple checking for parts, material, tools on hand. Then waiting for an extra set of hands, the wife and other distractions, the weather ‘cus I had to work outside, the stars and planets to all line up. Each tower took about 8+ near continuous hours plus brief meal breaks to complete just one.
Take care and take it slow. Tony.Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
Sounds like a plan Phil, one that works for you anyway. Congrats man, glad to see your recovery is going extremely well. Amazing how much better things get when you drop the lbs.
Yes indeed Tony, it's amazing what shedding some weight will do for you & your health. One day at a time 🙂"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Phil: I AM SO SORRY for missing mention of your health issues. You’re wise to approach a project of this magnitude at your pace and no one else’s.
Took me months of planning. Double and triple checking for parts, material, tools on hand. Then waiting for an extra set of hands, the wife and other distractions, the weather ‘cus I had to work outside, the stars and planets to all line up. Each tower took about 8+ near continuous hours plus brief meal breaks to complete just one.
Take care and take it slow. Tony.
Hi Tony,
Things have definitely been put on the back burner for now. I'll keep you in the loop after things settle down a bit."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Phil, very glad to hear you're on the mend. I still remember that pork roll you made for Lou's Polkfest.....damn that was good...like crack or something. Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks Jesse,
Yes I'm definitely on the mend!
And talk about a blast from the past...that was an awesome Polkfest at Lou's. I think at least 25 guys made it. And if my memory serves me I remember you winning the Polk HT speaker package 👍
My pork was a big hit, not quite crack but it sure did get the juices flowing. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Who knows maybe for another Polkfest down the road.
Phil"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
