DIY speaker stands with built in subs

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rooftop59
rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
edited February 2021 in 2 Channel Audio
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I’ve been wanting to do this for a while, finally got around to it. Found a good deal on these Usher tiny dancers that have been on my short list for a while, so I *had* to build new stands since the old ones didn’t fit. Each one has a Dayton Audio RSS210HF-4 8 inch sub built in, and I am using a Crown XLS-1002 to drive the subs. The sealed enclosures are 1 cubic ft with a chamber in the bottom filled with sand and garden pebbles. I used standard 3/4 inch MDF but made the baffle 1.5 inches thick. I bought this cheap router kit from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07CQK4ZL4?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title and was able to cut the circles and recess the drivers. TBH the cuts weren’t super pretty, but you can’t tell once they’re installed. I didn’t weight them but I would guess they are at least 50 pounds each. The Ushers are 40 lbs and the stands definitely weight more. The enclosures are extremely inert. Even at high volumes there is no vibration at all.

I am still trying to get them dialed in. Right now I have them crossed over at 50hz and the volume almost all the way up on the crown. I switched the sensitivity to high on the crown which seemed to help. Now I think I need to bump the crossover down a hair, as I am getting a bit of lower mid bass fatness...
Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,959
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    Those are beautiful....nice work!
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    Thanks kev!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,189
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    Very cool! Great idea to go with the mass loading in the bottom. I notice they state F3 is 24 Hz vented with 1.76 ft^3 and 48 Hz sealed with 0.55 ft^3. Does the subwoofer see that entire 1 ft^3 or is that before you subtract the volume of the sand and pebbles enclosure?

    What are your listening impressions of the combo so far?
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
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    Awesome job.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
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    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
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    Workkout room:
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    Not being used:
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    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    Very cool! Great idea to go with the mass loading in the bottom. I notice they state F3 is 24 Hz vented with 1.76 ft^3 and 48 Hz sealed with 0.55 ft^3. Does the subwoofer see that entire 1 ft^3 or is that before you subtract the volume of the sand and pebbles enclosure?

    What are your listening impressions of the combo so far?

    Partsexpress used to list another option: -3db at 27hz in a 1 cubic foot enclosure. If you read through the comments that is one of the more common builds, and what a customer supervise recommended to me years ago, so that’s what I went with. So far, so good. I am a big speed and texture guy when it comes to bass, and so fat I’m liking what I’m hearing...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • JayDog
    JayDog Posts: 266
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    good job! i like the end result!
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,042
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    Great work!
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  • guyincognito
    guyincognito Posts: 128
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    Very nice 👌!
    Rega Planar 8, Apheta 3 MC , Aria mk2 Phono
    Aurender n100h, Benchmark DAC2 HGC
    Arcam SR250, Parasound JC5
    Revel F208, SVS SB-4000
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,189
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    I am just getting interested in this subwoofer design stuff so I hope I'm not annoying here. I found this link that allows you to input thiele small parameters and such and I got this. It's great to see DIY here.

    https://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_subwoofer/subwoofer.php

    vhm2o080h0jo.jpg

    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    Conradicles wrote: »
    Great work!

    Thanks man! Haven’t noticed you around these parts much lately. Hope everything’s alright!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,042
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    All good. Thanks for checking!
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    I am listening to the cinematic orchestra’s every day right now, lots of really deep upright bass (and some get electric bass as well). Several subs I have had over the years couldn’t cleanly reproduce the rattling low E on the upright, but no problems here. Earlier I was listening to Bruno Mars uptown funk. The bass line has jump the right amount of metallic pop and grit, and you can easily discern the baritones sining along with the bass line. So far so good!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Posts: 2,082
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    Gorgeous both the stands and Tiny Dancers. Love the contrast!!
    "Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"


    Harry / Marietta GA
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,925
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    Those look fantastic!!!
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    BlueBirdMusic wrote: »
    Gorgeous both the stands and Tiny Dancers. Love the contrast!!

    Thx man! My initial thought was to go with black for the stands, but the spouse nixed that idea. She thinks the grey is less obvious/obtrusive/obnoxious, pick your word. I do like the grey and I do think it fits the room better.

    I got the ushers two weeks ago, and my 13 yo girl has commented multiple times about how ugly they are haha. When I was caulking and painting the stands instead yesterday (because all of the sudden we love on the North Pole) two of my kids asked if the speakers were gonna go inside the stands, and my daughter reiterated to me how ugly they were 😂😂😂
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,534
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    Love DIY subs. Those look good and sealed is the right choice for your application.

    In addition to setting the Crown to high sensitivity I’d increase the signal going to it.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Love DIY subs. Those look good and sealed is the right choice for your application.

    In addition to setting the Crown to high sensitivity I’d increase the signal going to it.

    Thanks Dan! I am digging it for sure. Turning to sensitivity to high, crossover to 50hz, and putting the volume about 2 notches from max made everything come to life! (There is no way to increase the signal from the musical fidelity integrated’s preamp output). Two 8 inch sealed subs in a room this large aren’t going to bowl you over, but that wasn’t the point. The bass is fast, tight, and plenty deep for all the music I listen to...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,534
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    Agreed. You just wanted to extend/augment the low end of the ushers.

    As long as you are digging it that’s all that matters!
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,064
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    Those look great. Really nice work. I agree with @BlueBirdMusic about the contrast. Black would be the obvious choice to paint them, but I think the gray looks much better. +1 for the wife.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    Those look great. Really nice work. I agree with @BlueBirdMusic about the contrast. Black would be the obvious choice to paint them, but I think the gray looks much better. +1 for the wife.

    Thanks paul! I like the combo and the wife tolerates it 😂.

    I really wanted to buy your larger ushers! But 1. I knew I would spend a lot of marital capital getting those into the house, and 2. This combo was about 1k cheaper, and 3. Since the speakers and front ported and the subs are sealed, I think I can get away with keeping them a bit closer to the wall: much farther into the room would be a no go...I was glad you sold yours so quickly!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,466
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    "marital capital' - I've never heard that one before. Saving that.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    msg wrote: »
    "marital capital' - I've never heard that one before. Saving that.

    The spouse got a real nice Valentine’s Day gift this year, we normally don’t do v day. Gotta keep the marital account even 👍
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2021
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    Nice work Paul! DIY is always pretty darn cool. I've been wanting to do a project like this myself ever since having the Polk RT3000p/RT5000 set years ago.

    Here recently, I'm currently putting together a budget music system. The Usher S-520 is one speaker I'm looking at. Your sub/woofer project makes me think of the SW-520 that they once offered to turn the speaker into a 3-way.

    6.jpg

    rooftop59 wrote: »
    I am a big speed and texture guy when it comes to bass, and so fat I’m liking what I’m hearing...
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    I am listening to the cinematic orchestra’s every day right now, lots of really deep upright bass (and some get electric bass as well). Several subs I have had over the years couldn’t cleanly reproduce the rattling low E on the upright, but no problems here. Earlier I was listening to Bruno Mars uptown funk. The bass line has jump the right amount of metallic pop and grit, and you can easily discern the baritones sining along with the bass line. So far so good!
    Aw Man, I think we may have similar tastes when it comes to the lower register. Here are some tracks I love for evaluating midbass/lower registers.

    EARTH WIND & FIRE - 'Let's Groove' (tight, slamin' midbass!)

    DUA LIPA - 'Don't Start Now' (Up temple Dance track that moves out! Fast, tight bass, TURN IT UP!)

    FOURPLAY – 'Chant' (The floor tom hit is killer!)

    IGOR STRAVINSKY - DAVID ZINMAN/BALTIMORE SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA- 'Infernal Dance of King Kastchei from the Firebird' (The big orchestra hits on this one can tear a weak system apart)

    CHESKY RECORD - 'Bass Resonance Test' (very realistic upright bass test with all the resonance in the mix! I like to put this one on repeat when adjusting for speaker and/or sub bass placement.

    rooftop59 wrote: »
    I got the ushers two weeks ago, and my 13 yo girl has commented multiple times about how ugly they are haha.
    You can always tell the family there are other more expensive / pretty options that might blend with the decor better.
    s-MINI-X_0_maple-3.jpg
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2021
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    anonymouse wrote: »
    That positions the bookies really high up above ear level. Cannot imagine that works too good.

    The look tall in scale in the above picture but remember the S-520 is a small mini monitor. Also, Usher Audio produces some amazing products and know a thing or two about speaker design.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110718094905/http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/usher-series/SW-520

    S-520 - 7.09" x 10.43" x 11.81"
    SW-520 - 7" x 15" x 29.5"

    Combined total height = 41.31"

    The center of the tweeter is about 3-4" from the top and the the center of the mid about 7-8" from the top. Sounds perfect to me!

    https://6moons.com/audioreviews/usher3/1.html
    6moons.com wrote:
    Conclusion: How many have ‘traded up’ from a treasured product only to sacrifice something in turn? Not here. Owners and prospective owners of the S-520 monitor can live bigger without regrets. Usher’s S-520/SW-520 combination offers a clear upgrade path from monitor to floorstander that challenges pricier fare while matching with ancillaries from modest to top tier. Those preferring to leapfrog the evolutionary path and invest in both pieces immediately can do so with confidence and save the anticipation. Either way is a winning scenario.

    Who won’t be impressed? The SW-520 is capable of superb bass quality but anyone demanding subsonic depth will want more. The dynamics though improved will still not be acceptable to those whose playback levels approach hearing damage. Other than that, this product should have immense appeal. Usher has lavished a high level of attention on the quality of this value proposition. The sound is far from budget and the value far beyond the ordinary. Easily recommended as a high-performance high-end bargain.

    Usher%20S520%20Pedestal%202.jpg

    2078737-3a094bb7-usher-audio-s520-amp-sw520-bookshelf-speakers-and-subwoofer-modules.jpg
    Post edited by WLDock on
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,189
    edited February 2021
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    Thanks for that 6moons review. It sounds like an excellent combination for many. I was a bit surprised that Usher only managed a -3dB point of 38Hz! I like reviews that give test tracks used but I chuckled to myself that the author didn't use something like "Also Spracht Zarathustra" just out of honesty or to explore the true limitations, or any good pipe organ classical music, like J.S. Bach, Organ Music, Gabor Lehotka and Hannes Kastner.

    The author states:

    "It should be noted that the SW designation is a misnomer. You will hear but not feel excellent bass. Usher specs the bass tower down to an honest 38 cycles and while the speaker extends past that point with authority, it does not reach subsonic territory. So while it is a very good woofer, it is not by definition a subwoofer. It does however get close and does so in an impressive fashion to leave few people short-changed."

    Maybe Usher is conservatively rating it, because to me, subsonic is more like below 24 Hz or even the typical accepted value of 20Hz. I think I'd like this with a true powered subwoofer that could be hidden away somewhere, with its crossover set around 35 Hz.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,981
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    My combo is 40 inches high. Pretty much perfect. Tweeter is pretty much right at ear level in my normal sitting position. I could see how higher night yield a taller soundstage, but unless the tweeters have really good vertical dispersion, it would also seem to put the vocals too high...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,439
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    anonymouse wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »

    6.jpg

    That positions the bookies really high up above ear level. Cannot imagine that works too good.

    Think how high the tweeters are on the SDA 1.2's
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • tophatjohnny
    tophatjohnny Posts: 4,164
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    Looks amazing brother! Glad those ushers are doing their thing ! We love em too! Congrats!
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
    *****************************
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