I think audio science review is stuck in the 80's

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invalid
invalid Posts: 1,276
in 2 Channel Audio
AUDIO science review must be about 35 years behind, because most high end audio manufacturers were all about measurements back then, now they know measurements aren't going to necessary translate to great sound.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,599
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    Sorry, did you mean to email Amir instead of making a new discussion thread of questionable value?

    Here's his email address for you to address this topic with him directly: amirm@audiosciencereview.com
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    If I did that, his moderator would probably ban me from the forum.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,599
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    I didn't suggest making a forum post there, I said email him directly at the his email address which I provided.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    Amir is a hack
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    I should be able to just post on his forum, why would I need to email him?
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    To tell him he is a hack
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    joecoulson wrote: »
    To tell him he is a hack

    That might be a good idea
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    A science nerd who got bit in the tukuss by who knows and then went on a personal rampage against high end audio.
    Additionally only started to actually “listen” to the gear his was testing after folks gave him all kinds of grief.

    So now he back up his measurements with his own auditions. So all of a sudden he has ears to match his measurement tools and can give us conclusive results? Yeah right. A hack and Ho knows zip about high end audio and has no clue about the audiophile.

    Hack
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
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    He isn't into the hobby for enjoyment of listening. He is into the hobby for his enjoyment of measuring.

    To each their own. I couldn't care less about measurements if something sounds good to my ears. And ultimately, that is the only thing anyone should give a shoot about...their own enjoyment. Whether it is from listening or measuring.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,599
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    joecoulson wrote: »
    A science nerd who got bit in the tukuss by who knows and then went on a personal rampage against high end audio.
    Additionally only started to actually “listen” to the gear his was testing after folks gave him all kinds of grief.

    So now he back up his measurements with his own auditions. So all of a sudden he has ears to match his measurement tools and can give us conclusive results? Yeah right. A hack and Ho knows zip about high end audio and has no clue about the audiophile.

    Hack

    giphy-downsized-large.gif
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,037
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    ^^^^

    6ynixax83c96.png

    https://xkcd.com/386/

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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    He isn't into the hobby for enjoyment of listening. He is into the hobby for his enjoyment of measuring.

    I thought he was just joking about not listening to stuff but he was serious.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,599
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    LOL Mark. That cartoon was made for me.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    Anyone who supports his mess is not a true audiophile
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,037
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    LOL Mark. That cartoon was made for me.

    Needless to say, I have never jumped in to critique someone who was wrong on the Internet.

    o:)
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    He isn't into the hobby for enjoyment of listening. He is into the hobby for his enjoyment of measuring.

    To each their own. I couldn't care less about measurements if something sounds good to my ears. And ultimately, that is the only thing anyone should give a shoot about...their own enjoyment. Whether it is from listening or measuring.

    I knew I was holding your hand at Halloween for a reason
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,037
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    http://hhscott.com/vonrecklinghausen.htm

    liwg0e86fbcm.png
    "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing."
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    Brilliant
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,037
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    hmm... measurements... hifi...

    y8q8rko9mkgd.png

    source: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/90s/Audio-1992-10.pdf pg. 45 (ad spread - pp 42-51
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,434
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    I didn't know there were trapezoidal LS series. Did they change them to standard type cabs later? How did those trapezoid sound?
    I disabled signatures.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,560
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    msg wrote: »
    I didn't know there were trapezoidal LS series. Did they change them to standard type cabs later? How did those trapezoid sound?

    I've only seen them in the trapezoid cabinets. Are you thinking the S series?
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  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 699
    edited November 2020
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    I think y’all are being too hard on Amir.
    Personally, I find some value in his measurements.

    Nice to be armed with as much information as possible before making a purchase - good OR bad. He is only providing the information- you can decide for yourself .

    No reason to dump on him just because something you personally like measures bad.
    If YOU like it that’s all that matters.

    For example , I have a Keiid streamer that I bought to use in my sons room with Verb’s Ampino - cheap plastic Chinese made from Amazon , 60 bucks....
    Amir measured one a few months ago , and guess what ? Apparently it sucks !
    That’s ok , I still like it for what it does at the price , and my intent.
    I’m not mad , or even slightly bothered ....
    I read his “review” and gained some knowledge about it.


    Bk
    Dayens Ampino , Yamaha wxc-50 , Polk SDA 1c’s ( my first love .. ) , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Salk Supercharged Song towers ( difficult choice between these and my family if I had to choose ... 😩 ) , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN RIG

    PS Audio S300 - sitting in the closet for now …

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    It's not the measurements (good or bad) that I have a problem with it's the bad advise he and his following gives without even having heard certain gear.
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
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    gyosa wrote: »
    No reason to dump on him just because something you personally like measures bad.
    If YOU like it that’s all that matters.
    Bk
    That's a big part of the problem though. He doesn't know how to measure correctly and produce repeatable results. As a result, what he does post is totally bunk!

    He is misleading, distorting, and causing folks to spend money based on his lack of knowledge. That's bad for the industry, the individual and for now only profits for himself. He's a hack!
    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
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    Does anyone have an example of a component that tests poorly in ASR but sounds excellent (and lets leave out speakers)? I don't think I actually heard ANY of the components he tested but the one review that had me scratching my head was for Pass's Amp camp amp. This amp has a cult following and is supposed to sound tubey. I know in Amirs world tubes are terrible and just add distortion so I knew it would not rate highly but I was also surprised about the high amount of odd order harmonics that is generally regarded as distortion and not a tubey sound. Does this amp really sound excellent?
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    delkal wrote: »
    Does anyone have an example of a component that tests poorly in ASR but sounds excellent (and lets leave out speakers)? I don't think I actually heard ANY of the components he tested but the one review that had me scratching my head was for Pass's Amp camp amp. This amp has a cult following and is supposed to sound tubey. I know in Amirs world tubes are terrible and just add distortion so I knew it would not rate highly but I was also surprised about the high amount of odd order harmonics that is generally regarded as distortion and not a tubey sound. Does this amp really sound excellent?

    According to asr all pass amps are junk.
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  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 699
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    CJ ,

    Why do you say “he doesn’t know how to measure correctly “ ?
    What is he doing wrong , specifically?
    Do you have any examples ?

    That’s the crux of the discussion .... measurements are measurements.

    Personally, I visit his site to see what the measurements are - not the sound .
    Sound is subjective and personal.

    His recent measurements- and listening test - of a $2,300 pair of Audioquest Wind cables exposed them as snake oil.
    If I was in the market for these cables , I sure would be interested in his measurements before I bought them .

    That’s all I’m saying.


    Bk


    CoolJazz wrote: »
    gyosa wrote: »
    No reason to dump on him just because something you personally like measures bad.
    If YOU like it that’s all that matters.
    Bk
    That's a big part of the problem though. He doesn't know how to measure correctly and produce repeatable results. As a result, what he does post is totally bunk!

    He is misleading, distorting, and causing folks to spend money based on his lack of knowledge. That's bad for the industry, the individual and for now only profits for himself. He's a hack!
    CJ

    Dayens Ampino , Yamaha wxc-50 , Polk SDA 1c’s ( my first love .. ) , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Salk Supercharged Song towers ( difficult choice between these and my family if I had to choose ... 😩 ) , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN RIG

    PS Audio S300 - sitting in the closet for now …

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
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    gyosa wrote: »
    CJ ,
    That’s the crux of the discussion .... measurements are measurements.
    But you have to know how to acquire the numbers. If they aren't repeatable, then they are meaningless. Others with more experience get different numbers that they can repeat. Likely his errors come because he doesn't know how to keep noise out, setup properly or use the instruments correctly. The numbers are only as good as the techniques used to acquire them.

    He is well known for his trying to tell the worlds leading manufacturer of audio test equipment that he had a better way and they were taking a number wrong.

    If you'll bother to look, forums all over the web have documents the incredible long list of goof ups he's posted. Amateur hour type mistakes. Like way overblowing levels past designed levels and then saying, '...aha...look at that distortion'.
    gyosa wrote: »
    Personally, I visit his site to see what the measurements are - not the sound .
    Why...do you listen to the numbers...or the music as reproduced by the gear.

    See, that's where you're going wrong. The numbers he takes are meaningless. They don't correspond to what you hear! They wouldn't even if he did someday learn how to do them correctly. That's why you take measurements....to show what's not right with a design. But you always have to listen to know what went right.

    Lets say that again....measure for what's wrong...listen for what's right! Remember that and your purchases will work out much better.

    Also, check his record. He turned in the ultimate disaster at his proudly carried calling card of blowing audio performance at MS by turning the opportunity of having his leadership position with the player being automatically included with a dominant product. Ever see anyone suggest the MS player over any freeware? Then he was a disaster on the web regarding video. Laughed off those forums. Then co-started an audio forum. Got laughed off his own forum there. So then started this personal cult forum where he can edit, squash and denigrate those that don't agree with him. The meaningless of that forum...no...the harm to good audio...that comes from that place is a really dark spot on the audio business. He's now cashed in about all he can on cheap Chinese stuff, so now he's turned his attention to a garage production of measuring speakers. Where again, he's showing is complete incompetence regularly.

    If you want bad advice, foolishly spending your money on poor sound, you know a really good place to go!

    CJ




    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    Good for them, I am stuck in the 20's
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,276
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    If we listened to him and his followers, we would all be using cheap Chinese products or pro equipment.
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