Last audio component for the year: stick a fork in me, I’m done.

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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    You also need to ask yourself if and when you start collecting vinyl.
    Are you going to collect and shop around for new or used?
    If used where are you shopping?

    This makes a considerable difference on cleaning and needs. Are you going to let your children handle the vinyl?
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,314
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    Mike Reeter wrote: »
    Congrats on your new deck, I've been a VPI owner for several years now, I really have no desire to pursue anything else, other than Cartridge upgrades.

    Which tonearm comes with the Reference Table, a Gimbal or Uni-Pivot?

    I like your idea of going all out for a purchase, 'buy once, cry once'.

    Enjoy

    Unipivot with dual pivot attachment.

    I have the option to buy a gimbal fatboy as a second arm for $2000 instead of $4000, new in box. I got to see it and hold it in my hands. But not sure if I need to be spending more money.

    Any opinions of either arm?

    I have no experience with the VPI Gimbal Arm, I've been quite happy with the Uni-Pivot that came with my table. Many seem to be intimidated by the U.P. but it just takes some getting used to.

    A perfectly set-up U.P. will just set there and ride the grooves effortlessly.

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  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 701
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    Impressive Joey !
    Looks more like a spaceship than a “record player” !
    👍

    Bk
    Dayens Ampino , Yamaha wxc-50 , Polk SDA 1c’s ( my first love .. ) , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Salk Supercharged Song towers ( difficult choice between these and my family if I had to choose ... 😩 ) , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN RIG

    PS Audio S300 - sitting in the closet for now …

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
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  • Milito
    Milito Posts: 1,914
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    Congrats Joey!
    Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
    edited October 2020
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    @Joey_V Relevant. Check out this article I wrote about the Kirmuss system: https://theaudiobeatnik.com/kirmuss-audio-ultrasonic-record-groove-restoration-system-expectations-vs-reality/

    I was impressed!
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  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 4,521
    edited October 2020
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    I went with the Consonance RCM and it does a good job. I've cleaned
    3000+ records with it...

    here is a review;
    https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/record-cleaning-machines-okki-nokki-vs-consonance/

    I would think this is good enough if you are just buying new LPs
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    Mike Reeter wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Mike Reeter wrote: »
    Congrats on your new deck, I've been a VPI owner for several years now, I really have no desire to pursue anything else, other than Cartridge upgrades.

    Which tonearm comes with the Reference Table, a Gimbal or Uni-Pivot?

    I like your idea of going all out for a purchase, 'buy once, cry once'.

    Enjoy

    Unipivot with dual pivot attachment.

    I have the option to buy a gimbal fatboy as a second arm for $2000 instead of $4000, new in box. I got to see it and hold it in my hands. But not sure if I need to be spending more money.

    Any opinions of either arm?

    I have no experience with the VPI Gimbal Arm, I've been quite happy with the Uni-Pivot that came with my table. Many seem to be intimidated by the U.P. but it just takes some getting used to.

    A perfectly set-up U.P. will just set there and ride the grooves effortlessly.

    Nothing more impressive that a 2 point contact. Stylus needle on one end and then unipivot needle on the other.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    You also need to ask yourself if and when you start collecting vinyl.
    Are you going to collect and shop around for new or used?
    If used where are you shopping?

    This makes a considerable difference on cleaning and needs. Are you going to let your children handle the vinyl?

    Not sure if I would like my kids touching the Avenger Ref. I can only see damage in its future.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 4,521
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    SIHAB wrote: »
    Congrats Joey!

    What about mono recordings?

    Mono recordings?

    Man I haven’t even thought about that hahaha

    Do I need a different cart?

    unless you are in to old jazz dudes, probably not.... B)
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,133
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    displayname wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Agree on the going all out the first time with the core component and building from there. Find the comfort zone with the base and build around the table with further updates to tonearm, cartridge, cables, and phono preamp.

    Critically important is to get a quality record cleaning machine. Arguably just as important has getting the right turntable system to work with.

    What cleaning machine do you recommend?

    The VPI 16.5 is the standard workhorse machine that's been around forever and is known to be very effective and reliable for decades. I considered this one, but I liked the design features of the Project unit.
    VPI does have the Cyclone with some notable upgrades. Several other companies make solid vacuum based RCMs, and companies like Clearaudio make higher end, more automated units. Essentially as long as the vacuum is powerful enough and the arm can create a decent seal on the record, all of these clean about the same. On some forums you will find endless threads with opinions on cleaning solutions and methods. Everything from chemicals, to enzymes, to homemade cocktails, and rinse cycles.

    Ultrasonic machines are the generally considered a technically superior cleaning method, but the time investment is significantly higher. The initial investment is also more, but given where you're at I don't think that difference will be enough to make you sweat. In my mind, the big thing is time. I looked at the Krimuss system, which to me appears to be the most technically superior option on the market. But I just couldn't commit to a minimum of 20-30 of cleaning per LP. When you talk about cleaning 500+ LPs, that's time not everyone is willing to give up. I have jokingly said many times that I'd get a Krimuss when I get a staff member to handle the cleaning in another room. I'll add though that it's much easier to keep up with cleaning if you do it from the start instead of trying to go back and clean a few hundred records you already own.

    I've also read some speculation that the sound frequencies being put out by some ultrasonic cleaners could be detrimental for your hearing. I don't think I've ready anything conclusive on that, but might be something to research if you're looking at going that route.

    Step 1 - Decide if you want Ultrasonic or Vacuum based.
    Step 2 - Decide on a solution (if applicable)
    Step 3 - Find the unit in your price point that makes the most sense for your space


    I would also suggest investing in some form of poly sleeves when you invest in the RCM. No sense in putting a clean record into a dirty paper sleeve.

    That’s a lot of information to digest, thanks Willie.

    Let me ask you, what is the best vacuum based cleaning machine and what is the best ultrasonic machine?

    Give me top 3 best.

    Also, what do you mean 20-30 per LP??
    Best vacuum based, I'd say the Cyclone for reliability and key features. I haven't used or really looked into the fully automated ones like the top of the line Clearaudio, but it does seem like it would have a lot of parts that could be a pain to fix. But they do look snazzy. Keith Monks is another option that is supposed to be really great, but I haven't seen those in person.
    The effectiveness and tank like build of the Cyclone is undeniable though. Easily the safest possible bet for a vacuum.

    For Ultrasonic, I'd personally go with Krimuss if it wasn't for the time. I meant 20-30 minutes per LP above, sorry I wasn't clear. Keep in mind that 20-30 mins means the LP got fully clean in one cycle, which it may not. The video of the Krimuss at Fremer's house gives you a really good idea of what each cleaning involves. Take note that me mentions some albums might require multiple cycles. https://youtu.be/zTpqVT_1b08

    I do think they have the best cleaning system I've seen. But the thought of possibly spending 1-2 hours to clean a box set with 4 LPs is just too much for me. I just merged my collection with my fiancé's, I'm certainly not going to spend all that time working through her 250+ albums. So many albums are 2 LPs, so that's probably more like 350 LPs to clean.

    Obviously I wouldn't clean them all in 1 sitting, but if you figure 175+ hours cleaning time with the Krimuss vs 20-24 hours (3-5 mins max/LP) with a vacuum system... that's the deal breaker for me personally. Plus you can't really impulse grab an album and give it a quick clean with the Krimuss. With any vacuum, you go from dirty to ready to spin in a couple minutes.

    Now if funds and space permitted, a Krimuss + a vacuum would be the perfect solution. You could deep clean those special or rough albums, but then just vacuum for the day to day.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,663
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    That is one nice table Joey. Cartridge is also very nice. You really went for it!

    I would really consider getting that other arm also. Not that you need it but you might regret it later based on the price you mentioned. I would love to have two carts on my table.

    You are sure setting up a nice system. Congrats!

    I also have a couple of hundred records that are in great condition, as 99% of them were purchased new and unopened. Mostly classic rock, blues, jazz and many audiophile versions.

    You are staring down a new rabbit hole. Be careful my friend.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,066
    edited October 2020
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    When Joey dives in he makes a big splash, makes me and my Clearaudio, 2 Technics and Pioneer tables want to hide in the corner and wet ourselves. Joey from now on at Club Polk you shall be known as The Analog Man. Congratulations and enjoy the experience.
    https://youtu.be/NEoWaP4skv8
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    gudnoyez wrote: »
    When Joey dives in he makes a big splash, makes me and my Clearaudio, 2 Technics and Pioneer tables want to hide in the corner and wet ourselves. Joey from now on at Club Polk you shall be known as The Analog Man. Congratulations and enjoy the experience.
    https://youtu.be/NEoWaP4skv8

    I really thought about it. Go medium or go big. Everyone in my crew told me to avoid going low end because that my first thought, buy a $400 table and get used to it.

    Then I started thinking, if I buy medium and decide to go big, I have to explain myself twice to my wife (in addition to lost opportunity costs etc).

    So after balancing out the pros vs cons, then looking at what I could spare after literally running my audio bank account dry from the rack, I gave myself the green light.

    Oh and hearing it versus an aurender n10 with McIntosh d1100 dac... and completely obliterating the digital stack sealed the deal.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,066
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    jinssb7b4b9s.gif
    Dolla Bill's Joey it's just Dolla Bill's, you did good.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,663
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    Don’t forget to join the VPI forum!
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    So...

    We haven’t discussed the phono pre.

    I was thinking starting with a Parasound JC3? Then go from there?
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    https://www.audioadvice.com/pro-ject-vc-s2-alu-record-cleaning-machine.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwlID8BRAFEiwAnUoK1ehYhh_Pe_ualxMhUi5-0CYQN0F5UEmJUgbYb_1nuVP3QXadbt5QbxoC8_MQAvD_BwE

    Thoughts on this as a vacuum @displayname ?
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,663
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    I’ve got a jc3 and haven’t looked back. But we are not in the same category. It’s a great pre but see what AR offers would be my suggestion.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,133
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    So...

    We haven’t discussed the phono pre.

    I was thinking starting with a Parasound JC3? Then go from there?

    I wouldn’t skimp on the phono. Your cart is only as good as what’s amplifying it.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,133
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    Joey_V wrote: »
    https://www.audioadvice.com/pro-ject-vc-s2-alu-record-cleaning-machine.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwlID8BRAFEiwAnUoK1ehYhh_Pe_ualxMhUi5-0CYQN0F5UEmJUgbYb_1nuVP3QXadbt5QbxoC8_MQAvD_BwE

    Thoughts on this as a vacuum @displayname ?

    This is exactly what I have. Gets the job done!
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,439
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    displayname wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    So...

    We haven’t discussed the phono pre.

    I was thinking starting with a Parasound JC3? Then go from there?

    I wouldn’t skimp on the phono. Your cart is only as good as what’s amplifying it.

    That's true. I have a Kraco phono pre I'd be willing to pass along.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,133
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    On the Pro-ject, I’ll say buy local if you got that route. I purchased through Hi End Theater and Audio, Vu is great to work with if you haven’t worked with them previously.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,663
    edited October 2020
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    Seems like you might should look at the AR phono 3SE. Would be a great accommodation to what you have.

    And not that you won’t but focus on cables also.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    Gorgeous Joey. Congrats.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    displayname wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    So...

    We haven’t discussed the phono pre.

    I was thinking starting with a Parasound JC3? Then go from there?

    I wouldn’t skimp on the phono. Your cart is only as good as what’s amplifying it.

    Ultimately I believe an Arc Ref3 or similar will land here.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
    edited October 2020
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    https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-300-boulder-2108-consolidated-audio-monster-can

    http://boulderamp.com/products/2108-phono-preamplifier/
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-300-boulder-2108-consolidated-audio-monster-can

    http://boulderamp.com/products/2108-phono-preamplifier/

    Dude, you do know that’s like $52,000...
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,521
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    https://www.stereophile.com/content/analog-corner-300-boulder-2108-consolidated-audio-monster-can

    http://boulderamp.com/products/2108-phono-preamplifier/

    Might as well upgrade my boulder to the monoblocks...

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa5fg9-boulder-2150-mono-amps-solid-state
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
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    Might as well!
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
    edited October 2020
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    Or you could get a $3k Benchmark AHB2 which has remarkably similar THD and S/N ratio specs as your Boulder. :p

    Benchmark:
    < 0.0003 % THD+N at full rated power, 20 Hz to 20 kHz
    SNR: 130 dB Unweighted, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, Stereo Mode

    Boulder:
    THD at Continuous Power, 20 to 2KHz 0.0005%
    Signal to Noise Ratio -133dB, unweighted, 20 to 22 kHz
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