New audio component coming in!

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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    Alright, I did listening last night. Stayed in the room for 3 hours, for some reason I was still up at 6am.

    I didn’t really expect anything other than maybe some breathing room for my components.

    I don’t know why but what I noticed was a very significant improvement in imaging (and sound stage details and clarity).

    But really imaging. Vertical imaging and density. Normally I have tried to mitigate any unusually tall imaging with ceiling traps, and improved wire (wel) and equipment (arc pre, etc).

    But even at its best I still noted a slight diffuseness to the vertical height of let’s say, a vocalist/singer.

    But with the rack, I can’t wrap my brain around the fact that track after track, the imaging is tighter and the vertical image errors that I have heard is no longer present.

    I have no idea how it is doing this and I have no idea that this was going to be the result of the scuttle.

    I advise people who are looking at isolation components, to make sure pursue it. It reminds me of the cable debate. Once you hear it, you know.

    It really is that significant.

    And I had a VTI rack which utilized some isolation pads between the steel shelf and mdf shelves and used spikes between all shelf levels.

    Very odd.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
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    Going from a VTI to this is like going from a Honda Civic to a Ferrari 458, so yeah I would hope there would be a noticeable difference!

    Thanks for the mini review and do keep us updated as to how it sounds in the coming days/weeks. Since it's a natural wood product I assume it will take some time for it to settle/adjust to the humidity, etc.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    Going from a VTI to this is like going from a Honda Civic to a Ferrari 458, so yeah I would hope there would be a noticeable difference!

    Thanks for the mini review and do keep us updated as to how it sounds in the coming days/weeks. Since it's a natural wood product I assume it will take some time for it to settle/adjust to the humidity, etc.

    I’ll take some better pics and I’m going to do some experiments with vibration control.

    The way it is constructed is very interesting.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 699
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    From a rack ?
    Dang !

    😊

    Bk





    Joey_V wrote: »

    I don’t know why but what I noticed was a very significant improvement in imaging (and sound stage details and clarity).

    But really imaging. Vertical imaging and density. Normally I have tried to mitigate any unusually tall imaging with ceiling traps, and improved wire (wel) and equipment (arc pre, etc).

    But even at its best I still noted a slight diffuseness to the vertical height of let’s say, a vocalist/singer.

    But with the rack, I can’t wrap my brain around the fact that track after track, the imaging is tighter and the vertical image errors that I have heard is no longer present.


    It really is that significant.


    Very odd.

    Dayens Ampino , Yamaha wxc-50 , Polk SDA 1c’s ( my first love .. ) , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Salk Supercharged Song towers ( difficult choice between these and my family if I had to choose ... 😩 ) , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN RIG

    PS Audio S300 - sitting in the closet for now …

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,623
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    Now that you’re getting so many “end game” pieces, I’m going to convince you to get into cycling so that you can start all over with a new obsession.

    I’m going to enjoy watching it, from NY, FAR away from your wife.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    gyosa wrote: »
    From a rack ?
    Dang !

    😊

    Bk





    Joey_V wrote: »

    I don’t know why but what I noticed was a very significant improvement in imaging (and sound stage details and clarity).

    But really imaging. Vertical imaging and density. Normally I have tried to mitigate any unusually tall imaging with ceiling traps, and improved wire (wel) and equipment (arc pre, etc).

    But even at its best I still noted a slight diffuseness to the vertical height of let’s say, a vocalist/singer.

    But with the rack, I can’t wrap my brain around the fact that track after track, the imaging is tighter and the vertical image errors that I have heard is no longer present.


    It really is that significant.


    Very odd.

    Yeah. Weird. I expected nothing except maybe a better rack with more space. I expected it to aid analog (turntable), but not help with the other up streams.

    It is very discernible, very easy to hear. I went through so many tracks and it was consistent.

    The only thing I’m a little worried about is that I got used to the distortion from before that I’m needing to reorient myself again.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,279
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    It's probably isolating your equipment from room vibrations.
  • spongebobsquarepants
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    I was just looking at the SRA website because of this thread, and they make some cool stuff!

    Their isolation bases under the speakers seem interesting.

    What've you got under your speakers now?
  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
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    Willow wrote: »
    I was just looking at the SRA website because of this thread, and they make some cool stuff!

    Their isolation bases under the speakers seem interesting.

    What've you got under your speakers now?

    Under his speakers? Cheerios and sunmaid raisins

    Everybody needs a stash. ;)
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    I was just looking at the SRA website because of this thread, and they make some cool stuff!

    Their isolation bases under the speakers seem interesting.

    What've you got under your speakers now?

    I didn’t know they made speaker bases.

    I have SRA Ohio class XL amp stands for my old Cary monoblocks. Sold the Cary and kept the amp stands cuz they were awesome.
    I would love to have a stand made for the Boulder...

    ... but take one look at the price and it makes me have palpitations.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    invalid wrote: »
    It's probably isolating your equipment from room vibrations.

    Yeah, I just didn’t understand what kind of difference that would make. I’m still befuddled.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2020
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    Every bit of vibration affects the sound. The better the gear, the more this can be heard. My 400 pound rack certainly helped the sound by reducing vibration. Using Mapleshade brass footers under the gear reduces even more vibrational energy.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • gyosa
    gyosa Posts: 699
    edited October 2020
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    Can someone ‘splain to me how isolating solid state gear (amp , pre, streamer , etc.) from vibration ( turntable , I get ...) Improves the sound ?

    I mean , what are these vibrations doing to my amps and streamers ?
    Serious question , btw ...

    Bk
    Dayens Ampino , Yamaha wxc-50 , Polk SDA 1c’s ( my first love .. ) , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM

    B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL

    Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Salk Supercharged Song towers ( difficult choice between these and my family if I had to choose ... 😩 ) , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN RIG

    PS Audio S300 - sitting in the closet for now …

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    @gyosa
    I wanna know too. I had zero expectations and it just jumped out at me. Either I’ve gone crazy or...
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,552
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    :o. Very cool stuff!
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    Just got home from work

    Took some photos showing the detail.

    You can see how the edges don’t actually touch. There is also this odd jelly like spacer between the shelves and a blue absorbent unit between the vertical and horizontal supports.

    In the rear there is this granite like horizontally oriented support across.

    The shelf is not wood, it’s a composite.

    The ply supports are rounded off in each of the peekaboo views from the side. It feels smooth to the touch, I believe there’s a poly finish on it.

    It moves side to side, up and down, back and forward if you push on the individual racks.

    It’s impressive. Almost makes it worth the asking.9yqh8x3eobjx.jpeg
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    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    The footers are not rubber. Seems like a composite unit.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    Doing some crude tests. Water bottle on Scuttle, water bottle on 250lb Boulder, water bottle on SRA Ohio class XL amp stand.

    You can see vibration based on clarity of the water surface.

    3wcq010ik3xa.jpeg
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    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
    edited October 2020
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    I also placed the sra stand on the top shelf.
    No scratch on the composite shelf, mdf would have shown a divot.

    Did the water bottle test.
    I had Emma jump next to the stands/rack.

    Looks like:
    Boulder worst isolation, then sra amp stand (unit weighs about 50lb), the scuttle has least water reverberation and the water ripples was not rapid but more of a wave.

    I could not see a significant difference between scuttle on its own and scuttle plus sra amp stand.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    In comparison:

    Vti rack had absolutely minimal isolation. Each step vibrated.
    ivyxd63asroj.jpeg
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,552
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    I wish I was in a class that I had to worry about micro vibrations. Well done man. Hope you enjoy your audiophile journey 100% I look forward to your future posts?

  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    Then tried carpet floor only.

    Appeared better than VTI rack.

    I wonder if the vibrations are attenuated by the height of the rack.

    Would need to do measurements with time to decay and maybe a laser vibrometer to be more accurate.

    Needless to say: conclusion, vti rack did nothing.

    w1rcvlj9asey.jpeg
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
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    CH46E wrote: »
    I wish I was in a class that I had to worry about micro vibrations. Well done man. Hope you enjoy your audiophile journey 100% I look forward to your future posts?

    Thx man.

    Next adventure stop is a full on table. I have heard it and I am ruined.

    After that some tweaking with an outboard analog JL CR1 crossover and finishing up the room treatments, maybe some interconnect upgrades.

    Then sit back and see if there’s anything else. It is possible I could change speakers if I find something I enjoy more - would definitely attempt a push at the Magico M series.

    Hopefully I still have some years left of audiophilia. Haha
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
    edited October 2020
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    Joey why are you running Canare XLRs out of the DAC to the pre, and from the pre to the amp instead of AQ WELs?!
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,520
    edited October 2020
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    Joey why are you running Canare XLRs out of the DAC to the pre, and from the pre to the amp instead of AQ WELs?!

    It’s the final frontier. Having a hard time finding wel xlr and every time I find one, it’s $4,000 for a 1M pair. I had purchased some AQ Wind (silver)... and I didn’t like it, sold it. Was thinking of buying some Colorados or Earth but I don’t like to take baby steps so I’m just biding my time.

    I was just about to install some Cardas into the pre to amp tonight, that was my project. I wanted to see if I could hear a difference.

    Good eye! Still a work in progress!
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
    edited October 2020
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,132
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    Clipdat wrote: »
    Also gotta be careful buying online, lots of Chinese knock-offs like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audiophile-WEL-Signature-HIFI-XLR-Audio-Balance-Cable-with-72V-DBS/264791255249

    I would think the price is a pretty good indicator here. Too good to be true.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,049
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    gyosa wrote: »
    Can someone ‘splain to me how isolating solid state gear (amp , pre, streamer , etc.) from vibration ( turntable , I get ...) Improves the sound ?

    I mean , what are these vibrations doing to my amps and streamers ?
    Serious question , btw ...

    Bk

    Microphonic components. In the old days, mostly vacuum tubes. Heck, some of 'em would make respectable microphones. The 76s in a preamp I've been fiddlin' with are a good example -- I should make a video :)

    Nowadays, if I had to guess, mostly capacitors. The magnitude of the microphonics will be very small. Nonzero, though -- especially in high-gain circuits.
    Solid state devices could be microphonic, as well.

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,582
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    My ears are not that good me thinks.... Well then again I have crappy gear so there's that.