Larry's Rings

todmarsden
todmarsden Posts: 3
in Vintage Speakers
Is Larry selling his rings anymore?
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,550
    nope
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    edited April 2020
    Take 5.5 ID x 6.5 OD steel tube to a machine shop. Tell them to turn the ID to 5.65" and tap 4 holes (8-32) on the MW factory hole centers. Then part them off at 1/4" thick.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    I'll start a prototype...

    8vtnqblnakgm.jpg
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,891
    Nope!!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    Toolfan, Would these 1-piece rings with integral taps be effective bolted to the inside of the cabinets?
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited April 2020
    This is interesting. I do applaud you @xschop at your effort for sure!

    My take is the critical part and beauty of Larry's Rings are the threaded metal inserts. They effectively eliminate the issues associated with threaded screws, that rely on a robust grip (in shear) to the MDF. Any threaded fastener loses it's grip over time. Hurricane nuts are an improvement, as I used them on my 1C upgrade, but Larry's Rings are the ultimate.

    The inserts take all the clamp load, are nicely tied together with the metal ring to negate the torsional force when tightening. Now the MDF layer is only seeing compression, uniformly distributed all along the circumference. IIRC also that the thin ring is necessary as some of the speakers have very tight packaging between the drivers.

    From an old thread:

    629g4adz10su.png
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,421
    I believe I may have taken that pic!
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,180
    If Larry doesn't mind.....what's the thickness and width of the steel ring?
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    agfrost wrote: »
    I believe I may have taken that pic!

    That's cool! I was going through an old thread, so many links to pic's are long gone!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,421
    Yeah, photobukit was useful and friendly back in the day.

    Larry used to have a sweet video linked of rings being cut from sheet IIRC.

    The above-pictured rings are painted because I learned what happens to them over time when I bought/didn't install rings into my RTA 11TL.

    tor4po3z64v4.jpg

    Those rings got sold to me, by me, and I believe sold once again! (The painted ones have been installed in my 2BTL)

    Sorry for thread derail! To the top!
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    What SDA’s do you need them for?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    edited April 2020
    Them being high tensile steel and 1/4" thick is enough threading for 8-32 integral taps that obviously won't turn. I can radius the inner edge that sets opposite of the baffle interface. However I'm still not sure if this would suffice to ensure that it does not affect rear wave performance of the MW.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,550
    brgman wrote: »
    What SDA’s do you need them for?

    WOW look what the cat dragged in...

    How the heck are you doing ? Welcome back my man.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    Thx Pitt.
    I’m jumping back in after a few years of life’s crap.
    Finally have time to dust off the gear and enjoy it again.
    Need to lurk and see what’s going on here nowadays.
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,550
    Good to hear !
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,180
    xschop wrote: »
    Them being high tensile steel and 1/4" thick is enough threading for 8-32 integral taps that obviously won't turn. I can radius the inner edge that sets opposite of the baffle interface. However I'm still not sure if this would suffice to ensure that it does not affect rear wave performance of the MW.

    I missed or didn't realize that you were using steel. Perhaps after you part off on the lathe at 1/4", you could put them on the milling machine and mill out some material in between the threads, leaving them as threaded bosses. If you used a ball end mill you could even leave more material near the bosses and have a rounded fillet there as well.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,180
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    xschop wrote: »
    Them being high tensile steel and 1/4" thick is enough threading for 8-32 integral taps that obviously won't turn. I can radius the inner edge that sets opposite of the baffle interface. However I'm still not sure if this would suffice to ensure that it does not affect rear wave performance of the MW.

    I missed or didn't realize that you were using steel. Perhaps after you part off on the lathe at 1/4", you could put them on the milling machine and mill out some material in between the threads, leaving them as threaded bosses. If you used a ball end mill you could even leave more material near the bosses and have a rounded fillet there as well.

    To cut down on the cost of machining and time, one could even just grind away some material in between the threads with a metal cutoff wheel and you could make a bevel so as to not obstruct airflow very much but also retain as much rigidity in the steel ring as possible.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    edited April 2020
    I've got my 5Bs opened up and I measured the baffle thickness right at 0.5" under the MW lip/seat. Measuring the MW basket oval shape hole distances, I would say that an inner radiused edge would not interfere or add to air obstruction. The real positive is the baffle itself will become very rigid, especially between the tweet/MW and also MW/ passive radiator.

    Edited because the computer thinks it knows what I'm trying to say/convey.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,180
    I've noticed that Polk rabbeted the baffles to recess the MW drivers and passives on later models. My 7B's are not recessed, so a little more blockage to air movement but a bit stiffer. A radius would be stiffer than a bevel, but I'm wondering if a bevel might be better for speakers whose baffles are not recessed.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    I agree and it makes sense that the non-recessed models have stronger baffles and indeed a beveled edge would be best for those.

    My 5B's MDF seems stronger than the few sets of older 5Jr's that I built billet baffles for. I can't push as easily between MW and tweeter to make it flex inwards like the 5Jrs did.

    However they would indeed benefit from a backing ring. I just mic'd a few stainless 8-32 hurricane nuts and what do you know, the thread depth is exactly 0.25"
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,180
    edited April 2020
    I believe MDF is better than particle board, at least density wise. I at first thought that my 7B's were MDF but nope, particle board it is. I am planning to try to increase the stiffness of the baffles, especially between cutouts, which is the weak point as you have correctly pointed out, by feeding slow curing penetrating epoxy in until it won't take any more. I did this on a scrap piece of particle board and it absorbed a tremendous amount.

    I'll be very interested if you do a small production run of the steel rings, especially with a bevel. Too bad there's no way (?) to do these for the passives due to the stiffness, which is actually what makes them great potentially, but which would probably make them very difficult to get through the hole without permanently deforming them. The size of steel tube stock required would probably be cost prohibitive anyway. I suppose if it were feasible to make them, they could always be cut into 2 sections and would still be beneficial that way.

    Keep up the good work! :)
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • hytekrednek
    hytekrednek Posts: 125
    So sad they are not available anymore, but I do understand they are lots of work to make. Thank you Larry for making them for us. I got a complete set for both set of speaks I have, SDS 2.3tl and SDA CRS. I have not installed them yet, but plan to in the next couple weeks.
    What drill bit size do I need again for the install?
    Thanks again Larry. They are great.
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,085
    agfrost wrote: »
    Larry used to have a sweet video linked of rings being cut from sheet IIRC.

    I learned what happens to them over time when I bought/didn't install rings into my RTA 11TL.

    tor4po3z64v4.jpg

    The painted ones have been installed in my 2BTL!

    What’s the best way to clean-up rusty rings, prior to spray painting?

    Asking for a friend 😂
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampi Baltic 4
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,682
    GlennDog wrote: »
    agfrost wrote: »
    Larry used to have a sweet video linked of rings being cut from sheet IIRC.

    I learned what happens to them over time when I bought/didn't install rings into my RTA 11TL.

    tor4po3z64v4.jpg

    The painted ones have been installed in my 2BTL!

    What’s the best way to clean-up rusty rings, prior to spray painting?

    Asking for a friend 😂

    Spray can Rust Converter. The phosphoric acid converts the rust to a phosphate primer. Tough as nails.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,550
    edited April 2020
    In military terms they call that "parkerized" yep tuff as nails

    :D:D



    In all seriousness when mine did that I could wipe most of it off just with my fingers. A green scrub pad knocked off the rest.
    I never did paint them, I'm sure they'll be fine for 20 or so years
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,085
    Sweet . . . THX
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampi Baltic 4
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter