COVID-19

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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 3,130
    vmaxer wrote: »

    Yes, but the conspiracy theorists will tell you that we can’t trust anything coming out of South Korea though.....it doesn’t fit their narrative to say that this virus is not going away anytime soon and that there is much more to understand before we start opening everything back up.
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  • GardenstaterGardenstater Posts: 1,000
    vmaxer wrote: »

    This clears it up:

    “There are different interpretations and many variables,” said Jung Ki-suck, professor of pulmonary medicine at Hallym University Sacred Heart Hospital.

    “The government needs to come up with responses for each of these variables”.

    Sorry. It's late.
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,450
    edited April 10
    Anyone that thinks 360 million people are going to be obedient for x amount of time is kidding themselves. We always have to weigh the losses against the gains when making big decisions. Since deaths now have been downgraded and predicted to be in the 60k area, would you be just happy to go back out and live normally if we stayed under 60k deaths ?

    If No, why not ? You were just fine living a normal life when 60k of us died from the flu a few years ago. Nobody shut stuff down to prevent the flu from transmitting between humans and saving lives.Frankly, nobody cared enough to call out the death totals every day. Nobody cared enough to do stories about loved ones and loss. Everything just trickled on as normal.

    Same thing is going to happen with Coronavirus once we get a vaccine. We lose 40k next year, another 40k year after that, maybe only 20k in the next year, everyone will forget about it. The stockpiles will be replenished, supply chain strengthened, and tens of thousands will still die year after year after year. Nobody will bat an eye at it.

    We'll still be drowning in debt, some businesses may not recover, bankruptcies will rise but hey, we can live with losing 40k a year, I mean we have a vaccine and all what else can we do right.

    Right, not much else we can do, which is why we are so accustomed to losing that many with the flu. Then when another virus may hit and we start this process all over again.

    Maybe, just maybe, we should start looking at where these viruses keep originating from and put efforts into stopping them before they are even created or mutated further. In my mind, we have no choice given how just one virus getting out of the genie bottle can destroy the economy of the whole planet. I'm thinking Africa and China as the 2 spots where most viruses originate. I could be wrong, but both places for different reasons.

    China is going to be hard to deal with, they have the U.N. in their back pockets and don't like others telling them what they must do. Getting them to change is an uphill battle to say the least.

    Africa is the age old battle of providing clean water and sanitary conditions, good healthcare and jobs for the people. That's doable....if we can get these little dictators out of the way who siphon all the money for themselves. At some point, those lands will have to be annexed by other countries in order to accomplish that otherwise nothing changes. We just sit here and wait for the next, more deadly virus, and roll the dice.

    Then we have the wild cards, smaller countries who fly under the radar who may make viruses to sell to others as a biological weapon. Accidents happen and bam, we have another world crisis. Punishments have to be hard and swift and a very tight rope around the labs that do research also.....very tight.

    Some believe that in order to restructure the power players on the planet, one must first destroy everything and start from scratch. We just witnessed how easy it is for one virus to destroy the economy of just about everyone. If the death tolls were in the millions, poverty prevalent, food scarce.....civilization as we know it would cease to exist. Some rejoice at this idea, many even embrace it to hurry up and arrive. A virus is a good way to accomplish this feat without a war, without destroying the infrastructures and most importantly, without blame. Did we just witness a trial run, or was this truly an accident....who knows, but I bet some people where paying very close attention at just how easy it was. this time around. Everything that is happening right now, up until now, has been just theory. Who would have thought we could scare the whole planet into a police state so easily. In my mind, we simply can't adjust for every evil mankind comes up with. Every so often, hundreds of thousands of us, maybe even millions, will die from nefarious reasons, accidental release of infectious viruses/diseases, war, or some other mad scientist ideas evil people think of to mass murder. Even from natural disasters. We won't be able to stop everything, not quick enough anyway, and we can't keep throwing the planet into shutdown mode without dire consequences too.
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 3,130
    @tonyb, are you suggesting that covid19 was man made?
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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,402
    tonyb wrote: »
    Anyone that thinks 360 million people are going to be obedient for x amount of time is kidding themselves. We always have to weigh the losses against the gains when making big decisions. Since deaths now have been downgraded and predicted to be in the 60k area, would you be just happy to go back out and live normally if we stayed under 60k deaths ?

    The death rate of 60k is based on social isolation. It would be much higher if we acted as business as usual.
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  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 4,714
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  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    tonyb wrote: »
    Maybe, just maybe, we should start looking at where these viruses keep originating from and put efforts into stopping them before they are even created or mutated further.
    Amen.

    Tom

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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,658
    shawn474 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Oh brother.... 1y1pfvf7pn2s.png

    Jesse, your passive aggressiveness throughout this thread is palpable....if you have something to say, please say it. Instead of responding with this type of childishness, have an original thought and put it into words instead of trying to incite people into a back and forth with you so you can play the victim El Presidente’. You rail against the trolls yet participate in that behavior better than them all......

    Nothing passive aggressive or trolling about it. Simply an appropriate response to your trying to make others see things the way you do. News flash, it isn't working.

    Are you attacking me? Should I feel like a victim because I never do.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • verbverb Posts: 10,185
    vmaxer wrote: »

    Yeah! Woody Harrelson (expert) is touting this theory! :smile:
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  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 2,652
    edited April 10
    BlueFox wrote: »
    The death rate of 60k is based on social isolation. It would be much higher if we acted as business as usual.

    I agree with you. This is what many seem to be missing. If we did not lock down, the math tells us we would have a death toll in the millions. The social distancing is doing what it is supposed to be doing - lowering R0

    Now, I agree with Tony that " I bet some people where paying very close attention at just how easy it was. this time around." There will be bad actors that will look to exploit this.

    The same is also true of any social trend. You can see it in copycat leaders around the world who are playing to our leaders playbook with much success. We've all gone back to our caveman roots, retreated into our caves with spears pointed at the door. Gonna be hard to battle global pandemics with this trend. Viruses do not respect borders, with or without walls.
  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 4,714
    anonymouse wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »
    The death rate of 60k is based on social isolation. It would be much higher if we acted as business as usual.

    I agree with you. This is what many seem to be missing. If we did not lock down, the math tells us we would have a death toll in the millions. The social distancing is doing what it is supposed to be doing - lowering R0

    Now, I agree with Tony that " I bet some people where paying very close attention at just how easy it was. this time around." There will be bad actors that will look to exploit this.

    The same is also true of any social trend. You can see it in copycat leaders around the world who are playing to our leaders playbook with much success. We've all gone back to our caveman roots, retreated into our caves with spears pointed at the door. Gonna be hard to battle global pandemics with this trend. Viruses do not respect borders, with or without walls.

    Not sure how this happened, but I didn’t post that?

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  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 4,714
    BlueFox wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Anyone that thinks 360 million people are going to be obedient for x amount of time is kidding themselves. We always have to weigh the losses against the gains when making big decisions. Since deaths now have been downgraded and predicted to be in the 60k area, would you be just happy to go back out and live normally if we stayed under 60k deaths ?

    The death rate of 60k is based on social isolation. It would be much higher if we acted as business as usual.

    It was Bluefox
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 3,130
    edited April 10
    F1nut wrote: »
    shawn474 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Oh brother.... 1y1pfvf7pn2s.png

    Jesse, your passive aggressiveness throughout this thread is palpable....if you have something to say, please say it. Instead of responding with this type of childishness, have an original thought and put it into words instead of trying to incite people into a back and forth with you so you can play the victim El Presidente’. You rail against the trolls yet participate in that behavior better than them all......

    Nothing passive aggressive or trolling about it. Simply an appropriate response to your trying to make others see things the way you do. News flash, it isn't working.

    Are you attacking me? Should I feel like a victim because I never do.

    This is called a discussion, is it not? How do you know how many agree or not. And why is that even an issue? There’s a difference in trying to introduce an alternate viewpoint for consideration (me) vs. pushing biased political agenda and belittling others (you). Trust me when I tell you that your opinion of me matters not one bit. I called you out for the childish trolling behavior that you’ve displayed all over this thread and you you double down with your juvenile response.

    You shouldn’t feel attacked at all - I engaged you in a discussion and you responded. Me with a statement pointing out the obvious and you with an inaccurate depiction of my intent to further your false narrative. My goal here isn’t to see how many people can agree with my point of view or corroborate my ideas - I will gladly leave that up to you. It is to participate in discussion, learn something and have a place to unwind. Your goal sadly seems to be an unending game of one upsmanship. You’ll prove it with your strategically placed LOL and insatiable need to get the last word. Open your mind man - life is too short to think you have nothing left to learn.

    Post edited by shawn474 on
    Shawn
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,658
    Again, an appropriate response, LOL

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  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,909
    shawn474 wrote: »
    @tonyb, are you suggesting that covid19 was man made?

    If Tony isn't we should be.
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  • NotaSuvNotaSuv Posts: 2,862
    How many here have actually lost a good friend or loved one?? I have lost 3 so even 3 to me is too many...........................for those that feel this is man made maybe you need to gather in large groups outside and let Nature thin out that herd :) better yet go to a filled church and see how good the Lord protects your ****................
  • NotaSuvNotaSuv Posts: 2,862
    'You can't fix stupid" as evident by the posts here ;)
  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,909
    So I take it notasuv that you are of the opinion that the virus originated from a bat from the Chinese jungle meat markets ?
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  • muncybobmuncybob Posts: 2,309
    Was it man made? Maybe....if you take into consideration the quality control in China being what it is....and if that same QC is practiced at the lab in that area that has a reported 1500 viruses growing there....then maybe?
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  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,909
    And I'm not entirely clear how KNOWING that Covid-19 is man made would necessitate the gathering in large groups outside merely to,as you suggested, "thin out the herd".

    I certainly hope that wasn't the advice you gave to the 3 acquaintences that you lost.
    In any event Godspeed to them and peace to their families
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  • BlueBirdMusicBlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,119
    The military readiness and the state of our borders are certainly a concern. The border has been a problem for years and contributes to why the coronavirus has marched in. I consider the coronavirus to be much worse than the flu and just comparing the number of deaths as a barometer detracts from the potential "power" of the coronavirus to disrupt things across society and our military.

    We have to be concerned with what is happening to the Naval ships. Look at what has happened to the USS Teddy Roosevelt - 400+ cases and most of the crew has been removed from the ship.

    I searched for the situation on other ships and found this.

    With Warship Coronavirus Cases Rising, Concerns Over Military Readiness
    nma7a6hxab95.png

    https://www.npr.org/2020/04/09/831266852/with-warship-coronavirus-cases-rising-concerns-over-military-readiness

    With 11 aircraft carriers in the U.S. Navy's fleet, the Roosevelt is one of three with crew members reported to have been infected with the coronavirus. The only other American aircraft carrier currently in the western Pacific — where the U.S. uses such vessels to project military might and counter potential hostilities from China or North Korea — is the USS Ronald Reagan, docked in Yokosuka, Japan.

    Although the Pentagon late last month stopped identifying the locations of active duty service members infected with the coronavirus, crew members are reported to have tested positive for COVID-19 on the Ronald Reagan as well as on the USS Nimitz. That aircraft carrier — the oldest of the fleet — is currently docked in Bremerton, Wash., and has had its deployment to the Pacific delayed by a two-week quarantine of its crew.


  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,402
    The border has been a problem for years and contributes to why the coronavirus has marched in.

    Not to sidetrack the thread, but what did border enforcement have to do with the COVID virus outbreak in this country?
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  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,207
    vmaxer wrote: »

    This is a load of garbage.

    5G runs on the most of the same frequency spectrum as current 4G technology. It uses different transmitters but runs in the same 2.4 GHz to 4.2 GHz range as stuff in your house, currently, like a wireless landline phone, your wifi signal and even Bluetooth.

    It runs in millimeter waves, mid-band, and low-band ranges with mid-band being the most widely deployed. The problem with the 5G bands above 2.4GHz and even into the EHF range that the millimeter waves ranges gets in to is that there's a tremendous amount of atmospheric attenuation on the signal strength. So for 5G to work, you need 2-3 times the number of 4G antennas. 4G operates in bands from about 700 MHz to 2.6 GHz with certain duplexing modes getting close to 6.0 GHz. But that, too, gets into millimeter wave range. So much of the 4G LTE deployment is sub 2.7 GHz. It still has attenuated range compared to 3G but the data rate for 4G is like 3 times as fast as 3G because 4G uses separate antennas for Rx and Tx signals.

    5G does also but because of the atmospheric attenuation, you need shorter distances between antenna clusters to maintain signal strength and data rates.

    The other reason 5G needs more antennas is because when you get into the millimeter wave range of the broadcast spectrum, it doesn't go through walls, windows and doors well. So to see the super high performance of the near EHF (Extremely High Frequency) range indoors, you need an antenna in the building.

    This is yet another reason why mid-band and low-band 5G deployments are more common from cell providers. The lower frequency ranges in the band can extend through structures and other obstacles more reliably. Additionally, the antennas for existing 4G installations are capable of reaching into that range so they can be reused. The technology for broadcasting in the low and mid bands for 5G is also significantly cheaper which accelerates roll outs of the networks.

    There's many more differences that get super nerdy between 4G and 5G.

    But 5G s not really different than 4G and much of the 5G spectrum has been in use for decades now, beaming data all over the place, everywhere around the globe. The only reason that 5G is able to be rolled out is because the U.S. military is no longer using the bands that make up the 5G spectrum and they let them go up for auction a few years ago now since all their new communication tech is working on higher frequency ranges and they aren't in the 5G bands anymore.

    So no, this is nothing new technology wise. The only thing new that 5G brings to the table is how it's managed and how data is transferred over the existing communications technology. 5G broadcasting tech has been in use since the 80's, just not a consumer or even public level.
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  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    NotaSuv wrote: »
    How many here have actually lost a good friend or loved one?? I have lost 3 so even 3 to me is too many...
    Please accept my sincerest condolences. That is definitely some bad news and I am sorry to hear that.

    Tom

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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 3,130
    So for those in the “covid-19 is man made” camp......who made it? China? Russia? North Korea? Unleashed it all over the world just to see the public readiness and response as a dry run to gauge effectiveness? To collapse the world economy?

    EVERYTHING that I have been reading suggests this is not a genetically engineered virus. And as a matter of fact, other countries could be saying the same thing about us....after all there is a BSL-4 facility not more than 30 miles from me that doesn’t have the greatest reputation for maintaining containment. If there is compelling evidence to suggest that this was man made, please share it.

    Regardless, man made or not, I do see this pandemic as a precursor to future possibilities of chemical warfare by nefarious governments. And we will all need to be more prepared, vigilant and have measures available for an effective response.



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  • GardenstaterGardenstater Posts: 1,000
    *snip*

    With 11 aircraft carriers in the U.S. Navy's fleet, the Roosevelt is one of three with crew members reported to have been infected with the coronavirus. The only other American aircraft carrier currently in the western Pacific — where the U.S. uses such vessels to project military might and counter potential hostilities from China or North Korea — is the USS Ronald Reagan, docked in Yokosuka, Japan.

    Although the Pentagon late last month stopped identifying the locations of active duty service members infected with the coronavirus, crew members are reported to have tested positive for COVID-19 on the Ronald Reagan as well as on the USS Nimitz. That aircraft carrier — the oldest of the fleet — is currently docked in Bremerton, Wash., and has had its deployment to the Pacific delayed by a two-week quarantine of its crew.


    I'm betting that in the military, everyone who is in close contact with each other is getting tested. Not saying they shouldn't be, they should. But one of the ways we have super sc-re-wed the pooch in this thing is not testing everyone, whatever the reasons. Iceland is testing everyone. I know they have a much smaller population but we are *supposed* (ha!) to be the greatest country in the world. How about that nursing home in WA that was one of, if not the very first, hotspots in the US. They refused to test everyone in the home; patients and workers, and look what happened there! Ya can't fix stupid? I sure hope we can in the future.

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  • xschopxschop Posts: 1,423
    Jstas wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »

    This is a load of garbage.

    5G runs on the most of the same frequency spectrum as current 4G technology. It uses different transmitters but runs in the same 2.4 GHz to 4.2 GHz range as stuff in your house, currently, like a wireless landline phone, your wifi signal and even Bluetooth.

    It runs in millimeter waves, mid-band, and low-band ranges with mid-band being the most widely deployed. The problem with the 5G bands above 2.4GHz and even into the EHF range that the millimeter waves ranges gets in to is that there's a tremendous amount of atmospheric attenuation on the signal strength. So for 5G to work, you need 2-3 times the number of 4G antennas. 4G operates in bands from about 700 MHz to 2.6 GHz with certain duplexing modes getting close to 6.0 GHz. But that, too, gets into millimeter wave range. So much of the 4G LTE deployment is sub 2.7 GHz. It still has attenuated range compared to 3G but the data rate for 4G is like 3 times as fast as 3G because 4G uses separate antennas for Rx and Tx signals.

    5G does also but because of the atmospheric attenuation, you need shorter distances between antenna clusters to maintain signal strength and data rates.

    The other reason 5G needs more antennas is because when you get into the millimeter wave range of the broadcast spectrum, it doesn't go through walls, windows and doors well. So to see the super high performance of the near EHF (Extremely High Frequency) range indoors, you need an antenna in the building.

    This is yet another reason why mid-band and low-band 5G deployments are more common from cell providers. The lower frequency ranges in the band can extend through structures and other obstacles more reliably. Additionally, the antennas for existing 4G installations are capable of reaching into that range so they can be reused. The technology for broadcasting in the low and mid bands for 5G is also significantly cheaper which accelerates roll outs of the networks.

    There's many more differences that get super nerdy between 4G and 5G.

    But 5G s not really different than 4G and much of the 5G spectrum has been in use for decades now, beaming data all over the place, everywhere around the globe. The only reason that 5G is able to be rolled out is because the U.S. military is no longer using the bands that make up the 5G spectrum and they let them go up for auction a few years ago now since all their new communication tech is working on higher frequency ranges and they aren't in the 5G bands anymore.

    So no, this is nothing new technology wise. The only thing new that 5G brings to the table is how it's managed and how data is transferred over the existing communications technology. 5G broadcasting tech has been in use since the 80's, just not a consumer or even public level.

    Serious question, Which frequency spectrum was responsible foe the brain cancer clusters found at San Diego State Univ.?
  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,207
    xschop wrote: »
    Serious question, Which frequency spectrum was responsible foe the brain cancer clusters found at San Diego State Univ.?

    I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Got a link?

    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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