Official Polkfest 2019 - complete with new SDAs!

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Comments

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,281
    Tone issues are much different than phase issues. Like I said, even in the reps description of his track he made me listen to, he described phase issues. According to him, placement was spot on. That’s where I had serious issue.
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,136
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Feel free to sling the "your ears are crap" and "the setup was crap" and "you don't know what to listen for" crap but I was there and I know what I heard.

    It might just be an example of bad synergy.

    I would normally agree with you but with the interconnect disconnected, they sounded damned good.
    There is also the part where the Polk rep listened to them and said that they were working exactly how they should and he didn’t hear anything wrong.
    Those 2 things sort of preclude synergy as a possibility me thinks...
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,566
    I really want to hear them for myself. The one nagging thing that bothers me is the openness of that wall on the left side of that sound stage. It just seems to me that the cancellation signal was left to wander off and may have unknowingly and adversely affected the sound in SDA mode.

    Again, I don’t want to start or continue a disagreement about setup, room or gear. I guess I still want to give the benefit of the doubt to the team at Polk. I just wish I knew who to talk to about hosting a meet here at my house. If I can make it happen, I would be honored to meet you guys...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • halenhalen Posts: 494
    First off. I don’t know who this Polk Rep is or credentials. Marketing/Project/Ops or person behind the scene that created the speakers.

    I do trust those that listened to the new SDA’s. Too bad there is not a software update for them. Oh well.

    Non SDA it is. But of course, I still must experience these bad boys.

    halen
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,281
    I really want to hear them for myself. The one nagging thing that bothers me is the openness of that wall on the left side of that sound stage. It just seems to me that the cancellation signal was left to wander off and may have unknowingly and adversely affected the sound in SDA mode.

    Again, I don’t want to start or continue a disagreement about setup, room or gear. I guess I still want to give the benefit of the doubt to the team at Polk. I just wish I knew who to talk to about hosting a meet here at my house. If I can make it happen, I would be honored to meet you guys...

    Sda is not created by reflections. It’s the direct signal that is important. With that said though, why do you think I built the false wall you told me wasn’t good enough, even though it perfectly addressed first reflection points? I even tried putting absorption directly to the right of the right speaker to eliminate the first reflection point for a different balancing act. Same issue. When you are not in the sweet spot, it sounds much more appropriate.

    Loading the room and creating balance issues is a completely separate issue. Having more soundstage width on one side is a completely separate issue. Those issues were not presented to me. The phase issues were though, and they were generated on both the left and right side.

    You should hear them for yourself, but I would also hope that you would trust me enough to know what something sounds like.

    My only hope is that somehow it was this singular pair, but I’ve gotten zero reassurance from Polk that this is the case. If I get the chance to hear another pair - perhaps at the other place here - I’ll see if it exists on that pair.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,281
    One last thought: as I think I said earlier in the thread, the phase issues pop up when a source is coming only from a single speaker. The sda seems to work fine when the signal is shared, even if balance falls heavily one way. It makes me wonder if a simple low level channel bleed might correct this issue.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,566
    Again Skip... I am not at all questioning your ear or ability to set up a room. I know you can. I am saying that from the outside looking in, there appear to be variables at play that could be a factor, however small a chance that is.

    I was concerned quite a bit by the design choice to angle the drivers 15 degrees off axis. In my mind, it would seem that position would be tricky at best. Could you try angling the speakers inward so that the outer drivers are facing straight ahead? I know that is not the way they say to do it, but I think it might help.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,558
    edited November 13
    ...Could you try angling the speakers inward so that the outer drivers are facing straight ahead? I know that is not the way they say to do it, but I think it might help.
    Wouldn't be the first time that an audio manufacturer was wrong (or at least misguided) about the best implementation of their own products. :|


  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,104
    John, that's funny you mention some toe in or out. I was thinking the same thing.
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,846
    Could you try angling the speakers inward so that the outer drivers are facing straight ahead?

    From the pictures it looks to me like they were already toed in.

    But SDA requires the time alignment of the drivers to the "sweet spot" to work effectively. Toe-in will change that and given the baffle design, toe-in would put the SDA signals way off axis which could cause unwanted reflections that would seem like "phasey" behavior.

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,281
    They were picked up Sunday night so I can’t do any more. I did think about toeing but I let it stand as it was so the rep could hear. Since everything is firing as it should be per him, I have no other option but to believe the implementation is flawed.

    It wouldn’t be the first time they got sda wrong. We can see that over the vintage lines.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    Any you guys have thoughts on anything else at Skips, like the gear in all these systems ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,359
    Yeah, what about the L200s?
  • tonyb wrote: »
    Any you guys have thoughts on anything else at Skips, like the gear in all these systems ?
    If I was shopping for an integrated below the Norma Revo IPA price point, I would be interested in the seeing how the Cambridge Edge A paired up with the Rosso stuff. It looked decent and didn't seem to be the source of any issues. And I've liked their other products enough to be interested to give it a fair shake at the price point. It certainly had no issues driving the SDA's with authority, and the evidence shows with how many of spoke of the SDA's bass.

    The Siena/Norma combo obviously sits in a different price league than the others, and performs accordingly. I love that system.

    We didn't get to swap out too much gear throughout the day (understandably), but it would be fun to see if the Elba's maybe stepped up further with the Edge. Or if the Polks or other Rosso took differently to some of the other Cambridge integrated amps. But overall I think the Cambridge Edge and High Fidelity cables Skip had in place might be the real unsung heroes of the event. We haven't given either those as much discussion as I think they deserve.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > JBL Studio 580 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,136
    dromunds wrote: »
    Yeah, what about the L200s?

    We never got around to getting the L200s set up. There were too many other things going on and too many people until late on Saturday to make it feasible to swap them in.

    That being said, in simply stereo performance (no SDA cable in the mix) the L800s are a vastly superior stereo speaker. From copious amounts and implementation of bass to a more defined mid-range. Top end is too similar, as it should be, though.

    The 200s are what I would pick for my room but then 16x13 is not a friendly SDA space.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,695
    the Cambridge at $6k is too close in price to the base big norma it would be no contest. not saying it can't be done by Cambridge but at this point I don't think so.
    skip, when can I come over ? :D
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, North Star Design USB dac32, Cayin Venus cd-100i,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval, Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,359
    Thanks, that's kind of what I figured maybe. I wasn't asking for a comparison of the L800 to the L200 as that would be apples to oranges, was more wondering what people thought of the L200's but after I typed the question and saw displayname's response above I figured there probably wasn't time to even pull them out.
  • marvda1 wrote: »
    the Cambridge at $6k is too close in price to the base big norma it would be no contest. not saying it can't be done by Cambridge but at this point I don't think so.
    skip, when can I come over ? :D

    I thought the 140 was closer to $9k? I don't know where the Norma 70 sits price wise though. Maybe I'm way off.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > JBL Studio 580 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,281
    The ipa-70 is $4500 and the ipa-140 is $7k.
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 1,574
    Mono makes a comeback!
    DSkip wrote: »
    One last thought: as I think I said earlier in the thread, the phase issues pop up when a source is coming only from a single speaker. The sda seems to work fine when the signal is shared, even if balance falls heavily one way. It makes me wonder if a simple low level channel bleed might correct this issue.
  • DSkip wrote: »
    The ipa-70 is $4500 and the ipa-140 is $7k.

    Oh, hard sell on the Edge A. I'd still be curious to hear your thoughts on how it pairs with some other stuff, but it'd be a big task to beat out the Norma stuff.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > JBL Studio 580 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,303
    tonyb wrote: »
    Any you guys have thoughts on anything else at Skips, like the gear in all these systems ?

    okay, the newer Elba's are better then the older Elba's
    The Norma gear seems special and some really good SS gear.

    Joseph who like me owns the older Fiesole's version1 like me, didnt hear enough to upgrade to the version 2 nor did I. but I know from others with better ear's it is better. but not enough for me to upgrade.

    I using the Modwright gear the LS100SE preamp I got from Ron and the KWA 100SE amplifier I got for half price used B) so I stopping and going to smell the roses for awhile! the Norma's I feel maybe better but for me it will be awhile before I go to the Norma's...heck by then I may choose the Mastersound tubes amps ...who knows I change like the wind...

    I've heard most of Skip's stuff on many occasions. so I really would have like to hear the Cambridge stuff on other speakers to see how there newer upper line stuff can handle some other speakers..as for the Siena's that Kerri owns will they may still be one of my favorites and sound excellent wither with Master Tube amps or the SS Norma gear! If $$$ and my house could handle them they would be mine >:)

    Personally I did for the most part enjoy the LS800's even though I saw the piano in one song move form far left behind me a bit to left in front on me after small adjustments.
    we played with string and other stuff to try to make sure they were even and spaced evenly. still love their looks and like the sound of the newer drivers and felt they had a touch of sweetness at times they made me smile...I love my Fiesole's for the killer midrange and I'm not the Bass head as Josh has spoken about. At times I heard some really nice midrange in the LS800's ... there is potential here in my opinion.

    The smaller newest bookies from Rosso's that Josh spent a lot of time with are great for smaller spaces. the can rock as Josh throw a lot of Hard rock at them and he forgot all about the TV you wanted and was fixated on those speakers.

    Now those newer cables sure played with my head, not sure they would be right for me price wise but ohh boy they can sing, I tried to stay away from them on purpose... can't afford to change up again for now...ignorance is a bliss sometimes.




    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,303
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Russ' twin.jxxoncfjbsj9.jpg

    The 1st time I meet Willie I started calling him Wild Willie. I guess he earned that nickname this weekend, A great dude to hang with and a pleasure to get to know!

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • voltz wrote: »
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Russ' twin.jxxoncfjbsj9.jpg

    The 1st time I meet Willie I started calling him Wild Willie. I guess he earned that nickname this weekend, A great dude to hang with and a pleasure to get to know!

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)

    Things have slowed a little in adult life, but several friends from college still call me Wild Bill, so not much has changed when I’m ready for a good time, lol.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > JBL Studio 580 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,879
    voltz wrote: »

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)

    Wait, what ? There was a party? Where the he11 was I at?

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,926
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    voltz wrote: »

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)

    Wait, what ? There was a party? Where the he11 was I at?

    Outside smoking lol
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 5,104
    voltz wrote: »
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Russ' twin.jxxoncfjbsj9.jpg

    The 1st time I meet Willie I started calling him Wild Willie. I guess he earned that nickname this weekend, A great dude to hang with and a pleasure to get to know!

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)

    why does it look like Ryan has a skirt on?
    Den: Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,

    Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, Aries Mini, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery, Wireworld Platinum Starlight, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.

    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,136
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    voltz wrote: »
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Russ' twin.jxxoncfjbsj9.jpg

    The 1st time I meet Willie I started calling him Wild Willie. I guess he earned that nickname this weekend, A great dude to hang with and a pleasure to get to know!

    Glad you had fun my friend but I hope you remember most of the party ;)

    why does it look like Ryan has a skirt on?

    Look, when you have amazing stems like mine, ya just gotta flaunt em!

    It appears you even shaved them for the guys. How nice.....

    Nope...pale white guy of northern European descent...my hair is naturally fine and fair. Well...except for this luscious beard I have going on.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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