Official Polkfest 2019 - complete with new SDAs!

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Comments

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,647
    edited November 10
    Viking64 wrote: »
    So, is the next generation of Legend SDA owner's manuals going to include a list of recommended SDA tracks and a list of non-recommended SDA tracks? :p

    I reckon, you know, something like this would be right out.

    u98cotnzslh9.png


    Mono -- don't you know?
    (albeit an excellent recording and a performance for the ages)
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 4,513
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Mono -- don't you know?

    I'm cornfooosed. Ella Fitzgerald got mono from kissing Cole Porter, or vice versa?
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,647
    Viking64 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Mono -- don't you know?

    I'm cornfooosed. Ella Fitzgerald got mono from kissing Cole Porter, or vice versa?

    She got no kick from champagne.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 4,513
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    She got no kick from champagne.

    When they begin the lysine. :p
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,704
    edited November 10
    I heard that someone (name withheld) was not impressed with the main system upstairs, he must be tone deaf :s
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, North Star Design USB dac32, Cayin Venus cd-100i,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval, Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,609
    DSkip wrote: »
    This room wasn't doing the L800's any favors for sure...

    5t9yvjsf8oqc.jpg

    You guys need to stop being Monday morning quarterbacks when you don’t know what you are talking about. The sound was good. It really was. The room is actually ideal. Issues were not the setup nor the room. It was the speakers and the sda. The rep just left and said it was exactly as they should be. Some of the issues we picked up on he didn’t hear and others were ‘due to the recording’.

    What I see is the right speaker has 4 feet or so from a side wall while the left channel has no side wall. This alone will throw them for a loop because the outer drivers have no wall to reflect the sound back into the listening space. Your imaging will be shot to hell, the soundstage collapses and you have exactly what you heard... a hot mess. They may have been set up correctly, but they were not in the right room.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,673
    He created a wall on the left side, no difference.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,609
    Was it a solid wall or was it made like a room divider?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,673
    edited November 11
    It was made from a pair of SRS 2's I think they were? One of the biggerish SDA's, side by side, backs facing into the room at the first point of reflection.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,609
    Unless SRS2’s are big enough to fill what looks like. 10 foot by 9 foot hole, they were not enough.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,299
    Trey gets it. Jesse gets it now. But please, continue to blame it on my inability to understand how to set up a room. I’ve done nothing to prove my capabilities there. Absolutely nothing.

    Smh
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,609
    Not trying to pass blame as I wasn’t there. I am only posing some observations based upon what I see in the pictures is all. If I am wrong, please accept my apologies. What the picture show seem to contradict what I have known to be proper setup for achieving SDA...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,534
    If the L800s are still there, it may help to move them to a different space and try some different gear with them given this is the first place I've read they don't seem to work as designed. Getting SDA to work right in a real world living space can be a challenge, which is something potential buyers need to be aware of. SDA speakers need room to breathe. I never found the old speakers to work their best with a lot of reflective surface things in between them, including the front wall itself, or with an unbalanced room.

    How far apart were the speakers and how far away did the seating area end up being? I ask because I really don't think I have the room where my two channel system is to set up a pair properly there. That's about 22' by 12'.

    My rough calculations tell me the L800s really need an enclosable room that's 18' by 20' or more but not too much more. If I was in the selling business, I'd have to tell a potential buyer about the space the speakers require to work their best. I have that space myself, but it's elsewhere in the house and that room has a lot of windows and would need some reconfiguration. As it is, the conventional L600s would be an easier recommendation for me.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,299
    The point is being missed. It seems to be the understanding that things were wrong. The SDA was working exactly as intended. That’s where I really have issues with the design. I pondered what was going on with the design and I am more certain than ever that it is a phase issue.

    If one speaker is in phase and the other is out of phase, it creates the same imaging anomaly that the SDA was doing. This went away anytime SDA was unhooked and came back after SDA was reengaged. This is consistent and repeatable and was the strongest when images were only created by a single speaker. The issue wasn’t noticeable when both speakers handled the signal.

    So, when the left speaker was playing a signal and the right one wasn’t, instead of cancellation of the signal, the SDA effect created phase anomalies. This issue was never experienced on past SDA but it has been a confirmed element not only by the Polk rep, but also one who has heard these elsewhere.

    This could still be a great speaker because some are not as sensitive to phase as others. The Polk rep did not seem to experience it as heavily as I did.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,652
    I have a thought on that Skip. This sound that supposedly wraps around you.

    When Polk came out with the SDA tech in a sounbar, it was to mimic a surround system. I'm wondering if their intentions were to do the same in the full range floorstander L800. Which we all know, is not the intended purpose of the SDA tech.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,299
    tonyb wrote: »
    I have a thought on that Skip. This sound that supposedly wraps around you.

    When Polk came out with the SDA tech in a sounbar, it was to mimic a surround system. I'm wondering if their intentions were to do the same in the full range floorstander L800. Which we all know, is not the intended purpose of the SDA tech.

    It’s something that another member thought about too. The original sda was a nice tech. This one is gimmicky. It will still be awesome for those home theater guys but if someone is looking to replace their original sda with these, I don’t see it being a good move.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,534
    edited November 11
    Interesting! The Atmos module option may indicate the main intent for the speakers. That’s where the money is these days. Four L800s with Atmos modules in a 20 by 20 home theater room could be impressive. :D
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,647
    Not to stir the pot, but I am curious:

    Maybe I missed it, but what variety of source(s)/source material was used? Any analog? Different DACs?

  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,573
    If that is what they have done, I'm officially disappointed lol
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,299
    I don’t do analog. Tidal and Qobuz were used via the 851n into the Edge A optical. Yesterday I swapped in a Norma integrated and it had the same issues.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,652
    Glad to see you swapped some gear Skip, at least we can eliminate that as a contributing cause. Seems we may have discovered an inherit flaw in this design, for music listeners anyway.

    Good point also on the atmos built in....because they may have intended these to be more so a HT speaker first and foremost.

    Did anyone have any impressions on the speaker without the SDA cable ? I'm wondering now if the L600 might be the better all around speaker.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,704
    edited November 11
    I thought they made great "party" speakers, but for 6k??
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, North Star Design USB dac32, Cayin Venus cd-100i,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval, Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,378
    Nightfall wrote: »
    Stopping for gas so real quick. I won't say they're bright bright but they're a little bright. Not a lot of depth to the stage but holy moly can it wrap all the way around the sides of the room and a little bit behind you even. Not realistic but super cool IMO. Maybe gimmicky to others opinion. Chocolate Chip Trip was indeed a trip.

    I like my 2Bs better and they're stock. They don't have the detail retrieval or wrap around stage like the L800s do but they're more musical and pleasing and I like the 2B bass better, has more texture.

    Just one noobs opinion though. I'm sure you'll get some more experienced answers.

    I keep thinking about this comment: these are not bright tweeters, at least not in the two weeks I listened to them. If they were bright perhaps it wasn't the speakers?
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,673
    16 degrees outside. Goodbye TX, hello CO.

    lltgd04p0td9.jpg
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,619
    DSkip wrote: »
    The issue is stereo recordings being shown as binaural experiences. Some songs sounded great but other tracks really got messed up by the sda.

    SDA, or at least the original SDA, did not represent stereo recordings as binaural experiences. SDA interaural crosstalk cancellation is not equivalent to binaural playback.

    A binaural reproduction process (e.g. headphones) cannot properly reproduce the directional cues in stereophonic music that will facilitate the illusion of a three dimensional sound stage.

    From Matthew Polk's 1984 Audio magazine article:

    "Although binaural recording techniques have produced startling results with headphones, our goal was to reproduce a more complete sound stage from existing stereo recordings. Binaural recordings being in regrettably short supply, we realized that, whatever system was devised, it would have to cope with the broad range of available recordings. Consideration of prevalent recording practices within the context of the directional hearing mechanisms had revealed that the sound imaging abilities of both loudspeakers and headphones were limited, but in different ways. The width of sound stage presented by loudspeakers is limited by interaural crosstalk. The stability of the sonic image of headphones is limited by the lack of realistic directional cues."

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,548
    dromunds wrote: »
    Nightfall wrote: »
    Stopping for gas so real quick. I won't say they're bright bright but they're a little bright. Not a lot of depth to the stage but holy moly can it wrap all the way around the sides of the room and a little bit behind you even. Not realistic but super cool IMO. Maybe gimmicky to others opinion. Chocolate Chip Trip was indeed a trip.

    I like my 2Bs better and they're stock. They don't have the detail retrieval or wrap around stage like the L800s do but they're more musical and pleasing and I like the 2B bass better, has more texture.

    Just one noobs opinion though. I'm sure you'll get some more experienced answers.

    I keep thinking about this comment: these are not bright tweeters, at least not in the two weeks I listened to them. If they were bright perhaps it wasn't the speakers?

    Why not simply hearing variability between different people?

    I see many say the Lsim are not bright, but I think they are. Many say the older Lsi are blah treble wise, but to me they sound just right.

    Not everyone hears high frequencies the same. Younger people have less roll off of the highs. Just part of aging and we all hear a bit differently to begin with.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,673
    edited November 11
    dromunds wrote: »
    I keep thinking about this comment: these are not bright tweeters, at least not in the two weeks I listened to them. If they were bright perhaps it wasn't the speakers?

    I wasn't the only one. I forget who it was but someone else also said "Is it just me or are they a little bright?". Just a little though. I'm curious as ever to get the L200's in my room.

    What I call a little bright Skip calls energetic and others call detailed. I think sometimes I describe things I'm hearing incorrectly. Or we just all have different qualities that we like and dislike.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 4,513
    If speakers are bright, just ask Alexa to dim them a little.
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,943
    So I'm reading about some possible brightness and phase issues - reminds me of the 2-tweeter SDA's that I've had (early CRS). Coincidence?
    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Study: Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * ProJect Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSA Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Studio: SBTouch * Marantz 2270 * Polk CRS+(4.1tl)
    Beach: Music Hall MMF5.1se * Speed Box II * DL103r * Lounge Copla/LCRIII * Sonore microRendu * Schiit Yggdrasil * Belles 20a Pre * Pass Aleph 30 / First Watt F5 Clone * PSA Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
    Beach Den: Dayens Menuetto * Fostex BK-12m Folded Horn / KEF LS50 / Dynaudio Audience 50 / Revel M22
    Beach Study: LG v30 phone * Schiit Aegir * Zu Omen Dirty W/end
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,299
    The new tweeters are much more extended but I didn’t find them bright. They could be considered that though compared to older Polks and even other setups in the house. Rosso is a dark speaker by design and a completely different presentation.

    The thing, again, is that the Polk rep verified it was proper and functioning as intended. Even in his description of his song and how it ‘should sound’, he described phase issues which were recreated when I sat down. The cancellation is not working appropriately. Plain and simple. Perhaps it had something to do with this particular pair but the issue seems to have reports from others as well as Polk staff. It appears Polk does not see this as an issue though and is blaming the recordings.

    I’ll reiterate that these are the best I’ve ever heard a Polk speaker sound. They’re fantastic. If I were looking though, I’d bypass the sda and get the $4k pair. Without the sda, they presented music the way it should be.
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