Cheap Preamp

aiconn
aiconn Posts: 277
I'm ready to replace my Pioneer SC-1222k receiver as my preamp. I've been looking around the under $300 market, and have found several interesting options. I'd like some input from folks that have heard these preamps to get an idea of their sound. It will be paired with a Parasound HCA-1000a. Polk LSiM 703s, and a Martin Logan 700W. The options I've seen are:

B&K Reference 30/50
Outlaw Audio 990
Adcom GTP 555
Emotiva UMC-200
PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
Denon DVD 2910
Quad 12L Active Monitors
Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
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Comments

  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Do all the pre's listed have a sub out?
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    I would vote for the Adcom. Straight forward design and fairly high quality of sound at its price point. Keep in mind that most of your choices are showing signs of aging and may require some cap replacement in the not to distant future.
  • Irrenhaus
    Irrenhaus Posts: 1,082
    How about a Schiit Saga new for only $300.00 no Sub Out but it has 2 pairs of RCA outputs.

    If this is for 2ch only I will go for the Adcom also.

    Cheers
    HTAVR-Pioneer SC99XPA-DR3 Differential Reference AmpPolk R-700Rear- RT150Side- RT150Center-CSi5Sub-Rythmik audio F25Player- Panasonic DP-UB9000Projector- Optoma CinemaX P2Screen- Silver Ticket Products STR Series 6 120"Audio Room 2ch rig.Cary AE-3, Onkyo M-504, Marantz SA8005, Azur 851NWharfedale - Linton, SVS SB12-NSDMinis Forum PC (streamer) and Panamax MX5105Headphone rig;Schiit JOTUNHEIM and different headphones.Samsung 42" flat screen TV.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    A couple of those are really HT pre/pro's.....is this for a dedicated 2 channel system or are you planning to add it to a HT system ?

    Does you sub have line level inputs/outputs ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    A peachtree Nova can be had for about 400 also.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    edited July 2019
    tonyb wrote: »
    A couple of those are really HT pre/pro's.....is this for a dedicated 2 channel system or are you planning to add it to a HT system ?

    Does you sub have line level inputs/outputs ?

    It's for 2 channel listening. Also, the sub only has line level inputs. I"d love to try a Peachtree, but my budget is tight.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Parasound p/ld 1100 to go with your amp. I had one with an HCA1500a and it was great. Should have no impedence issues going that route.
  • teekay0007
    teekay0007 Posts: 2,289
    One of my 2-channel setups consists of LSiM 703s, ML 700W sub and a B & K Reference 50 along with amplification (interchangeable) by Adcom, Rotel or a Parasound amp. The 703s are on 28” Sanus Ultimate Foundation stands. It makes a very sweet sounding system! I get lots of compliments on its presentation. I got the Ref 50 to replace my Ref 30 ONLY to try balanced interconnects. I believe you’d be hard pressed to find a better sounding preamp at the B & K price point. They do quite a fine job with the same equipment you’re using. I have the original remote for the Ref 50, but a universal (Logitech 650) worked great with the Ref 30.

    Another budget pre that I tried and liked with the listed gear was a Rotel RC1070. However, the Rotel doesn’t have digital inputs and I did want them. It does have a phono input though, if that’s important to you. No phono input on the B & K pre’s, but several digital inputs there. The universal remote also worked well with the Rotel.
  • rburgess714
    rburgess714 Posts: 614
    teekay0007 wrote: »
    One of my 2-channel setups consists of LSiM 703s, ML 700W sub and a B & K Reference 50 along with amplification (interchangeable) by Adcom, Rotel or a Parasound amp. The 703s are on 28” Sanus Ultimate Foundation stands. It makes a very sweet sounding system! I get lots of compliments on its presentation. I got the Ref 50 to replace my Ref 30 ONLY to try balanced interconnects. I believe you’d be hard pressed to find a better sounding preamp at the B & K price point. They do quite a fine job with the same equipment you’re using. I have the original remote for the Ref 50, but a universal (Logitech 650) worked great with the Ref 30.

    Another budget pre that I tried and liked with the listed gear was a Rotel RC1070. However, the Rotel doesn’t have digital inputs and I did want them. It does have a phono input though, if that’s important to you. No phono input on the B & K pre’s, but several digital inputs there. The universal remote also worked well with the Rotel.

    Glad to hear the Reference 50 is working out for you.
    Living Room
    Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Yamaha BD-S681, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, Polk S60, Polk S30, Samsung 60" LED

    Office
    Cambridge Audio 851A, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s

    Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    I also need the digital inputs so the B&K is looking like the way to go. I'm not looking at getting into tubes as my rabbit hole is pretty shallow.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Well then, if you need digital inputs, a HT pre/pro is your solution in that price point. Hard to beat the B&k for that price to sound ratio.

    Others worth a look see are older pre/pro's from the likes of Cary, Conrad Johnson, Anthem, and Outlaw.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Caution on the 50, make sure you see and hear it work. I have one that the software is not functioning on, and, it's a paper weight now. There were issues with that on some if these. Nice sounding piece if they work, but, B&K is no longer around and I'm not sure there is anyone doing that kind of service any longer.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    True Kerry, though I do believe someone has bought up the company and is planning a return.

    Aside from that, 300 bucks is a throw away piece anyway when it stops working. Cost ya more to fix 'em.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    tonyb wrote: »
    True Kerry, though I do believe someone has bought up the company and is planning a return.

    Aside from that, 300 bucks is a throw away piece anyway when it stops working. Cost ya more to fix 'em.

    It's not throwaway for me. That's a good chunk of my yearly audio budget.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    The above is why I would look for something like the Adcom. Pretty good SQ to start out with, and, has a straightforward design that could easily be upgraded later.
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    Ok. I gotcha now. So what's the pecking order for Adcoms since I know very little about them?
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,330
    Parasound also has some preamps that pair very well with your HCA-1000A.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    DSkip wrote: »
    aiconn wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    True Kerry, though I do believe someone has bought up the company and is planning a return.

    Aside from that, 300 bucks is a throw away piece anyway when it stops working. Cost ya more to fix 'em.

    It's not throwaway for me. That's a good chunk of my yearly audio budget.

    He was saying if it breaks and cost $300, its not worth fixing at that point. You'll easily surpass the value of the item with a few hours work. I don't think he intended to disrespect the price point.

    Exactly. When buying older audio gear, that possibility of something going south increases with age. The costs to work on this stuff isn't all that cheap either, so something to consider is all I'm saying.

    Good suggestion on the HCA 1000 too, if one can find them.

    Something newer, isn't going to have digital inputs, especially at that price point. Trade offs....decide which your willing to cope with.

    Might help if we know what the musical source would be also, and why the need for digital inputs.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    tonyb wrote: »
    Might help if we know what the musical source would be also, and why the need for digital inputs.

    For now my sources are a Denon 2910, Vizio M Series TV, and computer based audio. I don't have a dac for the computer so it uses HDMI to the TV, and then optical out to my receiver. I guess if I can find one cheap enough I could pickup something like an Audioquest Dragonfly to remove the TV from the scenario.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    edited August 2019
    aiconn wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Might help if we know what the musical source would be also, and why the need for digital inputs.

    For now my sources are a Denon 2910, Vizio M Series TV, and computer based audio. I don't have a dac for the computer so it uses HDMI to the TV, and then optical out to my receiver. I guess if I can find one cheap enough I could pickup something like an Audioquest Dragonfly to remove the TV from the scenario.

    Or, find a decent dac on the used market that will fit your needs...any pre in this price point is probably not going to have a digital side worth talking about. Which is why I would choose something simple and straightforward like the Adcom (or similar piece) that has decent design and SQ, and, then add a dac that checks the boxes for your digital needs.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Running your receiver into a pre amp isn't going to gain you much of anything and may even sound worse. Same with the TV.

    I think your putting the cart before the horse in this scenario.

    You want a 2 channel pre amp that integrates with the HT system. Your going to need a dac as well. Ideally, you want to keep the HT side separate from the 2 channel side for music.

    Dacs have a variety of connections, some with HDMI even, and some can even be used as a pre amp also.

    Other option is to stream your music from the computer, but that's another can of worms.

    A pre amp isn't going to replace a receiver. You'd need to buy all the separate components a receiver has in it.

    The easiest solution is the HT pre/pro, because it has all the connections you'd need, except the amp part, AND older pre/pro's won't have HDMI. Do you have a separate amp ?

    Keep the receiver for the HT side and TV watching. The front left and right preouts on the receiver should run into the front left and right inputs on a pre amp. Then from the pre amp you run that into an amp. Music sources ideally would be plugged into the pre amp, not the receiver.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    I'm looking to replace the receiver and not to set it up for HT. It's developed a nasty hum that I notice all the time. So long story short I'm looking to go from computer, tv, and 2910 into the preamp, and then out to the Parasound 1000a to power the LSiM 703s.

    I had a similar setup years ago with an Arcam Alpha 7 preamp, Parasound HCA 1200, and Totem Rainmakers that regret selling. That combo had great synergy, and I'd put that back together in a heartbeat, but that preamp is very hard to find and my discretionary income is much more limited due to the cost of college tuition for my youngest.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Gotcha, but....why have the receiver at all then ? A hum is probably a ground loop issue, possibly not the receiver at all.

    My question is....are you looking to remove the receiver from the system, or keep it for the processing part ? Do you need HT decoding ?

    If not, a dedicated 2 channel pre and dac is the better route for SQ improvements.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    I'm removing the receiver. The hum isn't happening through the speakers. It;s the receiver. I've tried it with nothing, including speakers, connected and it still hums.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    An Adcom GTP-600 popped up locally on FB marketplace. I figured I'd try it for a c-note. Hopefully it will sound good.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W
  • Irrenhaus
    Irrenhaus Posts: 1,082
    HTAVR-Pioneer SC99XPA-DR3 Differential Reference AmpPolk R-700Rear- RT150Side- RT150Center-CSi5Sub-Rythmik audio F25Player- Panasonic DP-UB9000Projector- Optoma CinemaX P2Screen- Silver Ticket Products STR Series 6 120"Audio Room 2ch rig.Cary AE-3, Onkyo M-504, Marantz SA8005, Azur 851NWharfedale - Linton, SVS SB12-NSDMinis Forum PC (streamer) and Panamax MX5105Headphone rig;Schiit JOTUNHEIM and different headphones.Samsung 42" flat screen TV.
  • Rich502
    Rich502 Posts: 146
    aiconn wrote: »
    Ok. I gotcha now. So what's the pecking order for Adcoms since I know very little about them?

    For Adcoms of the Era, would prefer a Gfp series preamps as opposed to the GTP or home theater series for both sound a reliability of the simple design, as someone else already pointed out.
  • aiconn
    aiconn Posts: 277
    edited August 2019
    After having the GTP-600 in my system for 10 days I've determined that this thing sucks! It's very flat sounding to me. I can turn on the tone controls, but that creates an artificial sounding increase across the board. I've tried running a Denon 2910 with analog out directly though the preamp, and via coaxial digital through an NAD D-1050 dac with the same result. I guess I expected this preamp to perform like the Arcam Alpha 7 preamp that I used to have.
    PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/Preamp
    Denon DVD 2910
    Quad 12L Active Monitors
    Marin Logan Dynamo 700W