HVAC Advice

Need a new system. Our 18 yr old heat pump crapped out. Looking at a Carrier Infinity Series. Pretty much top of the line with zoned heating and cooling. We have a 3000 sq ft colonial thats about 40 yrs old. The installer says 3 ton unit will be plenty, but everything ive read says otherwise. Also, its really expensive. $13,700 installed with 10 yr warranty and 2 yr service contract. Are we getting hammered here?

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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    Not sure about heat pumps but that does seem very expensive.
  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    Price is high but would need to see more about the model and seer rating and air handler model too... any new duct work? That's more than double than what I just paid for similar size Trane with new duct work. 3 tons is small for 3000 sq ft unless you are really far north, 3.5 tons is sized for 2000 sq ft here in FL

    Get multiple quotes...

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  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Thanks for the feedback guys. Definitely going to shop around.
  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,126
    There’s a lot of variables based on the system and other work.
    My house is much smaller, but my system was around $8k. I had quotes as high as 11, and as low as $4.5. Once I talked to a family friend who works in commercial HVAC, he gave me a good piece of advice about the 5k and under quotes.

    He said “yeah, you can get that 5 grand system with the same warranty, but you’re going to need to end up using that warranty, possibly more than once. And probably when it’s 105 outside. And don’t expect it to last even a month after that 10 year mark. HVAC guys love selling those cheap units because it makes their quotes look good and ensures at least a few future service calls.”
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    @rpf65 he's in the business i believe.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,825
    I had an entire CAC system done about 10 years ago with a Lennox 3-ton unit (house is 1600'), cost a little under $5600 for everything. Only thing is I did all the electrical runs so that saved me about $800. So yeah, IMO $13k seems high.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  • What does the "zone " add to the price?
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  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    What does the "zone " add to the price?

    Im not really sure. It wasnt itemized.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    I replaced my 18 YO Lennox with a Bryant Evolution 2 years ago,.which is a step-down brother to the Carrier Infinity. I wasn't looking to spend upwards of 10-11K on a heat pump but after speaking with my BIL on the west coast who installs these, I felt better about it.

    I'm actually glad I did, this thing sips electricity. I didn't go for the Extreme series which would probably be the "Infinity" you're referring to...which is even better, especially if you have cold winters.

    We have a 2,100 sq.ft house, on the worst days, about 90-95 deg and humid, it uses about 12-13 kwH...generally I average about 5-8 kwh during the summer for a 24 hr period.

    The heart of the system is the controller, which will monitor inside and outside temps, along with inside and outside humidity. If the inside approaches the target temp and not the target humidity, it will slow down to draw more moisture while maintaining the cooling. Mine is a 5-stage, yours would be infinitely variable.

    They are expensive, but worth considering. My co-worker had a 2 ton Infinity installed recently for just under 10K. Shop around, I would think you can get a 3-ton Infinity for about 11-12K.
  • deronb1 wrote: »
    What does the "zone " add to the price?

    Im not really sure. It wasnt itemized.

    From what I find it adds 2-3k to the price.
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    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Im reading good things about Goodman heat pumps. They still use copper tubing and Copeland compressors with lifetime warranty. Considerably cheaper because not as fancy, but not sure I need all that hoo ha. Im pretty sure we are going to need a,5 ton unit.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    The only way to correctly size a system is to have a load calc performed. The newer systems are much more efficient and also good windows and lack of leaks play a huge role.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Ya. House is around 40 yrs old. Does have replacement windows and well insulated.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    over sized is just as bad as under sized from what I understand.... I'm far from an expert and didn't sleep at the Holiday Inn Express
  • jflail2
    jflail2 Posts: 2,868
    For a bit more pricing perspective, I replaced an old HVAC unit in 2015 with a new, high efficiency Trane in a ~1,900 square foot, 2 story home. They did the unit outside as well as the air handler inside, but didn't need to touch the ducts. My all in total was about $8,800 including a 2 year warranty and a year of free service visits. I'd assume yours would be a bit more, but not 50%+ more. I'd also recommend shopping around a bit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    Like anything, you can purchase higher quality equipment which costs more.

    I can tell you from the hundreds of renovations I've done, regardless of the quality of the equipment, the actual installation is as important or more so. Make sure they know what they are doing.

    Had a company who was literally the cheapest in Charlotte, they would do a heat pump installed with a 10 year warranty for $3,600 on a 1800 sq ft house.

    Almost every single unit would not work and need service within a few weeks of the install and rarely passed inspections. Needless to say they are no longer in business.
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  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    Labor is costly. If yout system is more than 10 years old and using an older refrigerant then you need to make sure the supply and returns are sized and placed properly as well. I have seen older 2 story homes that didn't have returns at the top of the second floor.

    Get an assessment done by a contractor that knows the ropes.
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  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    deronb1 wrote: »
    Need a new system. Our 18 yr old heat pump crapped out. Looking at a Carrier Infinity Series. Pretty much top of the line with zoned heating and cooling. We have a 3000 sq ft colonial thats about 40 yrs old. The installer says 3 ton unit will be plenty, but everything ive read says otherwise. Also, its really expensive. $13,700 installed with 10 yr warranty and 2 yr service contract. Are we getting hammered here?

    Sounds like the your contractor is trying to sell you one of the variable speed units. The top of the line Cartier/Bryant use inverter type compressors. These are similar to the compressors used in the mini split (ductless) systems.

    Three ton system I believe is around 20 or 21 seer. I’ve done routine maintainer on those systems when it was around the 105 range, and have never seen them running at full speed. Think our pricing, Austin Texas, is fairly close to that range. Not in sales so don’t have pricing info.

    They also make a 5 speed model. I’ve never seen those things running in high speed. Carrier/Bryant are the absolute best at controlling humidity. As far as smart systems, all manufacturers, Carrier/Bryant probably have the easiest thermostats to use and the least amount of glitches out there. I wouldn’t even consider another manufacturer in my home, if I were in the market for high end systems.

    The Carrier (Infinity) Bryant (Evolution) controllers work with specific furnaces/air handlers. They have single speed, 2 speed, and variable speed condensers that are software compatible. I would advise staying away from the 2 speed model. Has problems dehumidifying in low speed.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Finnally landed on A Rheem 4 ton, 3 stage inverter type heat pump with the matching air handler with a constant torque ECM motor. 17 seer with 9 hspf of 9.5. Also has a Econet touch screen stat that it wi-fi controllable. Not top of the line, but has the major stuff we want. Install Tuesday. Cant wait!
  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    deronb1 wrote: »
    Finnally landed on A Rheem 4 ton, 3 stage inverter type heat pump with the matching air handler with a constant torque ECM motor. 17 seer with 9 hspf of 9.5. Also has a Econet touch screen stat that it wi-fi controllable. Not top of the line, but has the major stuff we want. Install Tuesday. Cant wait!

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  • So did you come in under the original estimate or more?
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
  • Nice.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.