motionless drivers?

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ericerik
ericerik Posts: 53
in Speakers
is it possible to develop speaker drivers that do not vibrate or move to create sound?? or is there already??
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  • JayMX
    JayMX Posts: 435
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    #physics
    Current Collection: Monitor 4a (Peerless), Monitor 5B (Peerless), Modified Monitor 7b (Peerless), RTA15TL (SL3000), SDA CRS+ (194’s), SDA SRS 2.3TL, R100's, R200’s, R300 🤩
    Pairs that have passed through: Monitor 4b (Peerless), Monitor 5a (Peerless), Monitor 5b (SL1000), Monitor 5b (SL2000) (3x pair), Monitor 7b (Peerless), Modified Monitor 7c’s (194’s), Monitor 10a (Peerless), Monitor 10b (5x pair), RTA8, RTA8TL, RTA 11T, RTA12c (194's), SDA CRS, SDA 2 (2x pair), SDA 2a, SDA 2b, SDA 1b, SDA 1c, SDA SRS 2 (2x pair), SDA SRS 3.1TL (198’s) (2x pair)...and more to come, it’s a sickness.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,098
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    All sound is produced through some form of motion, even in the natural world. Music is no different. A stylus tracking a record groove is a mechanical movement within a magnetic field. Magnepan speakers produce vibrations along a Mylar film, through which electrical current is carried within a magnetic field, and they are probably as close as you will ever get to your stated objective.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,798
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    ericerik wrote: »
    so your answers are no??

    Yes
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    Joe, @diverdog isn't completely wrong, as thermal expansion is part of the equation.

    Now foregoing the lightning/thunder bit, rapidly heating and cooling air will develop compression pulses. The biggest hurdle is the speed at which you can swing the temp or molecular excitement.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,798
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    So in theory if you could rapidly heat and cool air you could cause sound waves with no moving parts.

    FAIL!

    You'd need moving parts to rapidly heat and cool air. The case is now closed.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    Who's On First

    https://youtu.be/kTcRRaXV-fg
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,574
    edited August 2019 Answer ✓
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    exactly... Big daddy Texas man...


    I'm not a very smart man but I'm pretty sure that Plasma arc is moving.....
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  • shs
    shs Posts: 105
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    There needs to be "movement" of air, compression and rarifaction to carry sound, but moving air does not necessarily mean that there has to be mechanical motion to produce it. Whether one can get the desired SPL levels and frequency response is another matter. BTW, the Dyson fans and hair dryer might seem to do this, but they have lots of little blades!
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    F1nut wrote: »
    FestYboy wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    So in theory if you could rapidly heat and cool air you could cause sound waves with no moving parts.

    FAIL!

    You'd need moving parts to rapidly heat and cool air. The case is now closed.

    Please explain the requirement of moving parts to heat and cool. I can think of at least one way to achieve heat change without moving parts...

    Good for you. Now, go make a motionless speaker with NOTHING that moves.

    No thank you, it would be an exercise in futility. Horribly inefficient, and very little if any audible output. I'm just saying that it CAN be done with no moving parts. The juice just ain't worth the squeeze.
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    And let's all be honest here, we know molecular motion was NOT within the scope of this exercise.
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«1

Answers

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,798
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    Sound waves themselves are a vibration. No vibration = silence.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    and in turn, lots of vibration equals lots of smiles sounds
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    so your answers are no??
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    i disagree. we would still be useing candles if all , gave up this easily.
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    ericerik wrote: »
    i disagree. we would still be useing candles if all , gave up this easily.

    You can disagree all you like, but given the way we perceive sound, something has to vibrate our timpanum. So the answer is still "no".

    Also, if you're going to disagree, give a compelling reason or argument to support it, otherwise you're just using your feelings, and in the scientific world, they don't amount to squat.
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    fair enough, i will ponder.
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  • halen
    halen Posts: 677
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    ericerik wrote: »
    i disagree. we would still be useing candles if all , gave up this easily.

    Anything is possible right?

    Would you like to share what you have gained so far, on your quest for motionless drivers that produce sound? What kind of materials have you tried? How far are you in your research? How or what are you using to create sound, there must be an energy source. Last thing. What is the depth of your knowledge when it pertains to sound? What do you know about it?

    I invented the silent Velcro. So I have some understanding of the sound of silence.


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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    now that i can use silent Velcro... that's awesome!! i like the way your thinking. im not trying to dismiss the laws of physics. was just trying to allude to , is that speakers ,because of this need to move/vibrate air to create a frequency. is the last "obstacle" to reproducing music. without friction or mechanical movement. such as tape decks having to turn the tape . and the stylus having to use friction to produce vibration. arnt speakers the only component that uses mechanical movement?? in reproducing an audible tone?
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    now I'm also trying to figure out n1nut's definition of political correctness
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  • halen
    halen Posts: 677
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    You are going on a tangent or deviating from your objective with that statement.


    I have fired countless because of that during go time. So let’s stay within objectives.

    Let’s get back to motionless drivers. How far along are you?
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    ericerik wrote: »
    now I'm also trying to figure out n1nut's definition of political correctness

    pick it up by the clean end then..
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    What is the end goal with this inquiry? Why would you require a "motionless" driver?
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,017
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    Here's some motion less music makers. :p
    z4zibtwc7kit.png
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    well there's still the motion of air.
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    why i brought up the motionless speaker.... ???? i can't tell you for your own good. sorry
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    Well, then I'm done here, no sense in wasting any more time on this.
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    well thnx for your input and help.
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  • halen
    halen Posts: 677
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    ericerik wrote: »
    why i brought up the motionless speaker.... ???? i can't tell you for your own good. sorry


    Sounds dangerous. Care to answer my basic questions?
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    sorry the question was why i inquired , actually because i thought maybe something was already on the market . that was motionless, possibly.
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  • halen
    halen Posts: 677
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    ericerik wrote: »
    sorry the question was why i inquired , actually because i thought maybe something was already on the market . that was motionless, possibly.

    IC. Still sound of crickets.

    This thread should die and have no other responses.

    Please don’t feed this troll any longer.
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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
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    Get an amp with a lot of watts and an extremely high dampening factor. The speakers will still be moving (and putting out lots of sound) but you should not see anything moving at listening distances.
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  • ericerik
    ericerik Posts: 53
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    now name calling. i am no troll , ok!!! some you guys need to lighten up a bit. i didn't intend to start anything. i was just curious. this is a general question.. i didn't see any place in my profile to list my specific names and models of components and speakers etc. used in my audio/video systems but most of your profiles do. must have missed something???
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
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    Yup, it's called a signature. That's where you can put your list, and it will show at the bottom of each of your posts.
    ericerik wrote: »
    why i brought up the motionless speaker.... ???? i can't tell you for your own good. sorry

    ^ this is why the "troll" monicure (sp) was tossed out there. Total troll move, along with not supporting your argument, just so you understand.

    Now, if you really want to explore the idea, scientifically, there first needs to be some basic research and understanding of principles on your end so that we're (you and the forum) closer to the same plane, knowledge wise. Then we can move forward on this idea with less disparity.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    Well said Arty
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  • diverdog
    diverdog Posts: 27
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    So lets think out of the box. Sound waves are caused by compression and rarefication of air molecules. You don't need a mechanical motion to do that. I can think of an example of that everyone knows. Lightning causes thunder by rapidly heating air and causing it to expand. So in theory if you could rapidly heat and cool air you could cause sound waves with no moving parts. A "motionless" speaker. Case closed
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    edited August 2019
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    You don’t have a clue on what makes Thunder generate sound. Lightning moves air when it creates a pathway from the ground. That channel of air is then closed (hence movement) and thunder is made.

    Edit. Last comment removed
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  • diverdog
    diverdog Posts: 27
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    Electricity has no mass. Therefore it can't push anything out of the way! LOL It is the heat caused by the massive current that causes the air to rapidly expand and then contract. That is what makes the sound of thunder. I know my physics very well.
    How does lightning cause thunder?

    Image: slideshare.net
    Thunder, the sound that follows lightning, comes from rapid air expansion around the lightning bolt. The heat from lightning causes the air around the bolt to reach temperatures of over 40,000 degrees Fahrenheit rapidly. The heated air compresses then explodes outwards, forming a shock wave and creating a loud noise.
    Does lightning make noise? | Reference.com
    www.reference.com/science/lightning-make-noise-4997f415d52efd11
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