Facing back surgery, have questions

obieone
obieone Posts: 5,077
Long story short: About 6 months ago I herniated a disc (L3-L4), and have gone through all the non-surgical solutions, to no luck.
Since the procedure is somewhat risky, I'm trying to determine WHO the best neurosurgeon in the state is.
I'm using 2 different websites, with totally different references for the doctors.
My insurance says my current NS is stop shelf, but then when I go to "rate md's" he only scores 3 stars. Frustrating to say the least.
Is there another route? I'm just trying to reduce the chance of permanent disability as much as possible. :s

TIA
I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

Comments

  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    I've had two herniated disk surgeries (by one of the best NS up here) I know that doesn't help you. But I wouldn't worry too much about the permanent disability. If they are doing a Microdiscectomy (sp?) they are just getting the bulge out. They came close to having to fuse the second time but even at that all it would have done is reduce my mobility (flexibility) a bit. I'm sure Joey could have better insight for you.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited May 2019
    I can't recommend a surgeon but I can say I wish you all the best. ;)

    I researched a spinal Doc. here in town years ago and I found a review on him. This one guy my med. office I go to recommended him but this one review stated he operated on a woman and it didn't help her at all.

    She wanted to stay in touch with him to see what could be next but he ignored her follow-up calls. I knew right then he was a complete hack who only wanted to operate to get $$$$.

    No follow-up help? He's a complete JERK! >:)

    I didn't even call for an appointment for him to evaluate my neck. I didn't look up anymore surgeons that I can remember. :#

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mark090852
    mark090852 Posts: 993
    Tony M wrote: »
    I can't recommend a surgeon but I can say I wish you all the best. ;)

    I researched a spinal Doc. here in town years ago and I found a review on him. This one guy my med. office I go to recommended him but this one review stated he operated on a woman and it didn't help her at all.

    She wanted to stay in touch with him to see what could be next but he ignored her follow-up calls. I knew right then he was a complete hack who only wanted to operate to get $$$$.

    No follow-up help? He's a complete JERK! >:)

    I didn't even call for an appointment for him to evaluate my neck. I didn't look up anymore surgeons that I can remember. :#

    You only heard one side of the story. Believe me, that are always two sides or more to every story! You may have missed out on having a very talented surgeon help you.
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    I had an L4-L5 surgery about 28 years ago and thought my life was over initially afterwards. Everyone told me my surgeon was the best. EVERYONE. I looked him up recently and found he had a 2 star rating. Reason was his bedside manner. I almost left him because he was so introverted, all he kept telling me was just keep doing what your doing. I sought a follow up second opinion and when I went to that apt all the partners came in to see me, wanted to know why I was there, was I trying to sue him. Long story short, they confirmed what my surgeon was telling me and was able to calm my fears and concerns. 28 years later I can claim it was a complete success and I've had zero issues. As I went back and read the reviews on my surgeon I noticed that practically every one was because of his bedside manner.

    Most of those surgeries today are far less invasive and recovery time is much less.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    mark090852 wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I can't recommend a surgeon but I can say I wish you all the best. ;)

    I researched a spinal Doc. here in town years ago and I found a review on him. This one guy my med. office I go to recommended him but this one review stated he operated on a woman and it didn't help her at all.

    She wanted to stay in touch with him to see what could be next but he ignored her follow-up calls. I knew right then he was a complete hack who only wanted to operate to get $$$$.

    No follow-up help? He's a complete JERK! >:)

    I didn't even call for an appointment for him to evaluate my neck. I didn't look up anymore surgeons that I can remember. :#

    You only heard one side of the story. Believe me, that are always two sides or more to every story! You may have missed out on having a very talented surgeon help you.

    I've known my whole life about 2 sides to a story! You can't school me on that topic in the least. I'm sure I know more double-sided scenarios than anybody on this forum.

    My older brother is a compulsive liar. He'd blame me for crap he did all our lives. I've worked with liars and had many doctors or pa's lie on their exam room reports for God knows why and others I do know why. Lying doctors and pa's just in this town though. I didn't have insurance before coming here.

    I only need one side of a story when it comes to a doctor doing an operation and nothing improves. Why did he do the operation? To get some $$ on the books. This town is FULL of incompetent lying doctors. They're everywhere and I met a few of them too unfortunately.

    Why would I need surgery if hydrocodone eliminated the pain completely? It's just this city's medical profession is using pain pill needs as a means to get frikn rich off of people with great insurance. My doctor's office charged me 20,000.00 three times for illegal drugs urine tests. They wanted me to come in every month so they could scam me. My insurance co. never sent a statement on this scam. When my wife found out, this place looked liked cornered rats when I asked them WTF was going on. I still want to get the FBI involved.

    There's that risk factor cutting around inside a vertebra at the base of my neck.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,140
    I had surgery for a herniated/ruptured disc a couple of years ago. The surgeon was recommended by my primary care doctor and like you I checked whatever rating sites I could find. You could also look at the doctor's board certification in whatever you're seeing them for. Come to find out that my nephew used the same doctor about six months earlier. My ruptured disc was pressing on my sciatic nerve and none of the pain medicine gave much relief. After the surgery I took one pain pill after I got home and been fine every since. A few months later I was back at the gym and 6 months later I was helping move my newly purchased 1.2TL's into its new home.
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,862
    Interesting you mentioned bedside manners. Mine was as personable as a telephone pole. I didn't care. I wasn't there to make friends. I wanted the best to do his job.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Willow wrote: »
    Interesting you mentioned bedside manners. Mine was as personable as a telephone pole. I didn't care. I wasn't there to make friends. I wanted the best to do his job.

    Agreed, and knowing what I do now I wouldn't hesitate to use him again.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    Sorry to hear about your back. From the time I can remember, my father told, yelled, preached, and occasionally smacked warnings into me about ways to prevent back injury. He had a bad back, and didn’t want me to experience those problems.

    Don’t know where you live, but if your looking for any surgeon, ask nurses. Surgical nurses in particular. After the first doctors name pops out of their mouth, ask who is the second choice. You’ll find that there will be a lot of agreement on choice two, and that’s the guy who I would want.

    Reason being is number 2 will be somebody they probably dont know/worked with, and heard about his/her reputation. Usually the bedside manner falls into choice two, but you’re not looking for a new drinking buddy.
  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    One of the patterns I've seen in regards to reviews, is patients will complain about the office operation side of the practice, which I don't give 2 craps about,really.
    My only concern going forward is his TECHNICAL proficiency.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Good luck. Your body/mind is your most important asset. Take care.
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,021
    Willow wrote: »
    Interesting you mentioned bedside manners. Mine was as personable as a telephone pole. I didn't care. I wasn't there to make friends. I wanted the best to do his job.

    I saw a report that doctors with a good bedside manner were far less likely to be sued for malpractice than doctors who were less personable even when they were, in fact, negligent. Crazy.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    A good chiropractor would prevent a herniated disc from ever happening. I say good because most are no more than scam artists. BUT if you find a truly good one and use him regularly, you should never have issues unless you fall off a cliff or something.
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  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,140
    Only if he/she does all the lifting ;)
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    Having had two back surgeries, the most recent lumbar fusion, and working in sports medicine for 20+ years I will give you some advice:
    1. Ask for references. Most reputable surgeons will have a list of references that they can provide. If they don’t have them or they refuse, that’s a red flag.
    2. Get a couple opinions - everyone will have someone vouch for them being the “best”.
    3. Neurosurgeons can be a great option, but don’t limit yourself to that specialty. If you are an active individual and want to continue that there are a few options- facet injections or epidurals, laminectomy, microdiscectomy, fusion, etc. I ALWAYS recommend seeing an orthopedic spine surgeon as well. Many times, they have as much or more experience doing these types of procedures (especially fusions) for the active population.
    4. Be patient and follow ALL protocols in the post surgical phase. You will likely feel great after the procedure and want to get back to normal daily activities but be patient and stay the course!!!

    PM me with any specific questions relating to rehab or therapy. Best of luck to you.
    Shawn
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  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    audioluvr wrote: »
    A good chiropractor would prevent a herniated disc from ever happening. I say good because most are no more than scam artists. BUT if you find a truly good one and use him regularly, you should never have issues unless you fall off a cliff or something.


    While I can appreciate the confidence and the use of chiropractors, this couldn’t be further from the truth. There ARE great chiropractors out there - but making the claim that they can prevent a herniated disc from ever happening is inaccurate and untrue.
    Shawn
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    shawn474 wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    A good chiropractor would prevent a herniated disc from ever happening. I say good because most are no more than scam artists. BUT if you find a truly good one and use him regularly, you should never have issues unless you fall off a cliff or something.


    While I can appreciate the confidence and the use of chiropractors, this couldn’t be further from the truth. There ARE great chiropractors out there - but making the claim that they can prevent a herniated disc from ever happening is inaccurate and untrue.

    I'm assuming you don't use chiropractic medicine.
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    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I'm assuming you don't use chiropractic medicine.

    Your assumption is entirely incorrect. I use it and it certainly has its place. But the claims that some make about the type of care that can be rendered solely with chriopractic care is not only inaccurate but irresponsible.
    Shawn
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    Shawn, not trying to pick a fight but I've been in some form of physically demanding industry over 38 years and of the thousands of hard working men and women I've met in that time the only ones that ended up with disk failure were the ones that either thought chiropractors are crap or wrecked their dirt bike doing Evil Knievel ship.

    I was diagnosed with severe degenerative arthritis in my back at 35. I had no feeling in the tricep area of my left arm, couldn't sleep and had been in constant pain for over a year. I was referred to pain management, then a surgeon to have 3 sections fused. I went to get a second opinion from an exceptionally good local chiropractor who asked to give him one month. I started with 3 visits a week for two weeks then two visits per week. Finally I was seeing him once a week and when I went to my Dr for a pre-surgery followup I told him I had no more pain and was perfectly fine. He just shrugged his shoulders and said "huh".

    Conventional medicine doesn't recognize Chiropractic medicine or Herbal Medicine as anything more than modern carpetbaggers. If they can't give you a pill or fix it with a scalpel they are lost (no offense Joey...). My daughter and I read a book and watched a video that taught us how to adjust each other at home. I still try to see my chiropractor once a month but sometimes life just get too busy.

    Twenty years later my back is still fine.
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    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,138
    I am not a believer in back crackers either but you have given me more of an open mind. I appreciate your comments.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Most of Chiropractic today isn't as heavily slanted towards the "cracking" as new techniques in manipulation has been developed. I think they have their place and I would certainly give them a try before surgery. My surgery was after trying therapy. Chiropractic wasn't an option with my insurance.
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    edited May 2019
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Shawn, not trying to pick a fight but I've been in some form of physically demanding industry over 38 years and of the thousands of hard working men and women I've met in that time the only ones that ended up with disk failure were the ones that either thought chiropractors are crap or wrecked their dirt bike doing Evil Knievel ship.

    I was diagnosed with severe degenerative arthritis in my back at 35. I had no feeling in the tricep area of my left arm, couldn't sleep and had been in constant pain for over a year. I was referred to pain management, then a surgeon to have 3 sections fused. I went to get a second opinion from an exceptionally good local chiropractor who asked to give him one month. I started with 3 visits a week for two weeks then two visits per week. Finally I was seeing him once a week and when I went to my Dr for a pre-surgery followup I told him I had no more pain and was perfectly fine. He just shrugged his shoulders and said "huh".

    Conventional medicine doesn't recognize Chiropractic medicine or Herbal Medicine as anything more than modern carpetbaggers. If they can't give you a pill or fix it with a scalpel they are lost (no offense Joey...). My daughter and I read a book and watched a video that taught us how to adjust each other at home. I still try to see my chiropractor once a month but sometimes life just get too busy.

    Twenty years later my back is still fine.

    I can assure you I am in the camp that they have their place. There are some who have crooked practices and give the others a bad rap. I am educated, experienced and open minded enough to know that they are all not that way.

    I see chiropractic care more as a supplement to formal therapy than standalone therapy........but that’s just my opinion. It most certainly can facilitate feeling better, having better alignment and being generally more aware of things with your body. We don’t give as much credit to alternative forms of medicine in this country in my opinion. So we can agree on all of the above.

    BUT, I do take issue with the statement that “a good chiropractor will prevent a herniated disc from ever happening”. It simply isn’t accurate and frankly perpetuates the “quackery” narrative. I have a great group of chiropractors that I have worked with for two decades and sent literally thousands of referrals. They have helped tremendously.

    Your results with your injury are exceptional and I won’t argue the merits of the chiropractor because I believe in them too. But, as you did, I have some assumptions......you probably took time after your injury to evaluate all things related to your situation. You may have taken the time to research better nutrition and changed your diet. Maybe shed a few pounds in the process. Looked at nutritional effects and maybe adjusted your diet. Started stretching maybe? Educated yourself on proper lifting techniques so as to not exacerbate your back? Maybe worked on your core stability? All these things, when done correctly and intentionally, can be helpful as well. It doesn’t take anything away from the chiropractor but the treatment wasn’t the cure - the change in lifestyle was facilitated by the care that he / she is able to give and help maintain.
    Post edited by shawn474 on
    Shawn
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    My best advice would be something it sounds like you can't use. Our family has a history of back problems unfortunately. My advice would be to look into other ways NOT to have back surgery. I chose not too and still feel better than my Dad, who has had 3 of them.

    Tom
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    I have a Teeter Hang-Ups table that I love. Might be worth a try.
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    treitz3 wrote: »
    My best advice would be something it sounds like you can't use. Our family has a history of back problems unfortunately. My advice would be to look into other ways NOT to have back surgery. I chose not too and still feel better than my Dad, who has had 3 of them.

    Tom

    Agreed. Unfortunately sometimes surgery is the last / best option
    Shawn
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    kharp1 wrote: »
    My surgery was after trying therapy. Chiropractic wasn't an option with my insurance.

    Kerry, that is pretty much the norm as insurance companies go. Mine was the same way but I asked my GP doctor to write me a prescription for the chiropractic treatment and the insurance paid that way. My Union lobbied with the insurance companies and now they actually pay for chiropractic treatments as preventative medicine kinda like teeth cleaning for dental.

    Physical therapy is meant for injury recovery but it does nothing to prevent it other than give you a few exercises and a bill for their services. Those exercises (as back and neck injuries go) are to build up scar tissue around the injury and train your brain tu use other muscles that won't irritate the injury but it does NOTHING to correct it. Have you ever wondered why you always feel worse after leaving a treatment?
    shawn474 wrote: »
    treitz3 wrote: »
    My best advice would be something it sounds like you can't use. Our family has a history of back problems unfortunately. My advice would be to look into other ways NOT to have back surgery. I chose not too and still feel better than my Dad, who has had 3 of them.

    Tom

    Agreed. Unfortunately sometimes surgery is the last / best option

    Shawn, You are correct here and I can't use the dental analogy enough. If you don't keep your spine aligned and flexible, kind of like not brushing your teeth, you will have health problems that will end up requiring surgery.
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    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Physical therapy is meant for injury recovery but it does nothing to prevent it other than give you a few exercises and a bill for their services. Those exercises (as back and neck injuries go) are to build up scar tissue around the injury and train your brain tu use other muscles that won't irritate the injury but it does NOTHING to correct it. Have you ever wondered why you always feel worse after leaving a treatment?.

    We can agree to disagree on a lot of things but your mind seems to be made up. This could not be farther from the truth - maybe your situation resulted in that feeling but that is NOT the norm. You are way off base with your “facts” on therapy and nothing I say will change that. So we can agree to disagree on that too.
    Shawn
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