Humm....

Awhile back I moved my theatre room to the basement and the position of my sub and TV don’t allow to be plugged into my surge protector. I’m noticing that when I have my tv on, it creates a slight buzz through my speakers. Not super loud but it’s there and I’m anal so it annoys me. I also am getting a humm in my sub that I never had when it was plugged into my surge protector. I have researched this and have come across this https://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2016/05/ebtech-hum-x-100661116-orig.jpg. They say that sometimes when you can’t plug all your components into the same wall socket you end up creating a ground loop and this can stop it? Has anyone had anything to do with these or something similar? If so, is there a better product? For my TV I need something fairly slim as it plugs into the socket behind where it hangs on the wall so as not to show the cord hanging down. Let me know what the best option are. Thanks.
Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
Arcam CD37
Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
Vandersteen V2W

Comments

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,517
    Try a 3prong to 2prong cheater plug.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    Are you using cable TV?
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,517
    Good question^^^^
  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Are you using cable TV?

    I am but have unhooked the box and it doesn’t change. I actually even just unhooked the sub cable from the receiver and the sub still humms. I think I have a different problem.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,816
    Ground loops are insidious.

    DISCLAIMER: The grounding of electronic components is both art and science (IMO); am far, far from an expert; but I've been fiddlin' with this stuff for decades. I offer these comments/"suggestions" strictly as is and FWIW. YMMV, etc., etc., etc. :|

    I.e., here goes Marky, off the reservation to pontificate about grounds, without much deep understanding!

    Might I suggest a divide and conquer approach?
    Start with an absolutely minimal system configuration -- see if you can get it hum-free, then add back components. This may, at the least, identify the culprit for the hum.

    So the idea (well, one of them) of a ground loop is when there is a circuit (so to speak) of components that are all referencing each other as "ground". The
    components are not all at exactly the same ground potential, so current can flow
    between components. That current either is AC, or can be modulated by the pervasive AC in our environment, which (I think!) is the source of the hum.

    In the old days, nonpolarized plugs allowed us to flip component plugs in the AC mains socket to ID the "minimum hum" orientation. This was, in fact, a common instruction in hifi component manuals, e.g., in the early 1960s.

    I cannot exactly recommend a cheater, for obvious safety reasons :*, but lifting a component's line ground can be, at the least, a helpful troubleshooting tool. :)

    There are ground loop breakers, mostly aimed at pro audio (automobile audio, too). They generally use a transformer to isolate the signal line from the ground (loop).
    Here're some more-or-less random examples:
    https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=ground loop&sitesearch=true

    Finally, another approach that might be helpful is to tie components together, ground to ground. I -- ahem -- like to do this with clipleads. Lots and lots of clipleads.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    I agree the first step should be, aside from getting inside your breaker box etc, is system breakdown. One piece at a time till you find the hum. If the hum happens with any one piece then you have an issue in your circuit/house wiring/other electronics.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    Is there a freezer, fridge or fluorescent light in the same circuit?

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I agree the first step should be, aside from getting inside your breaker box etc, is system breakdown. One piece at a time till you find the hum. If the hum happens with any one piece then you have an issue in your circuit/house wiring/other electronics.

    I think this is the case because the sub hums with nothing plugged into it. I just noticed my receiver hums too when nothing is plugged in. This is very strange because when I built my theatre room in the basement I had all new electrical wires run for the new plugs. One being specifically for the sub, and a 20amp run with 12g wire for the surge protector, and another separate wire for the tv plug. Each with its own breaker. This was roughly 5 years ago. I’m wondering what my electrician could have done to cause this to happen. Now that I mention it, I noticed the receiver humming on its own pretty much right away and took note of it being odd cause when it was upstairs it was dead quiet. I then unhooked it and took it back upstairs and plugged it into the wall and it started to humm. I then went and unplugged my fridges and freezer, the humm was still there. So something my electrician did when he ran the three new wire runs and wired them in caused this. Maybe I should be calling him and picking his brain.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,816
    so... if you plug the subwoofer in to a different circuit... hum? No hum? Heck, use an extension cord -- if it doesn't hum, you'll have more data than you did before.

    :|
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 539
    I had a power surge at my house once and it fried my Sub. And it was much more than a hum. I came home and there was a very loud 60 cycle noise vibrating the house and this didn't have to do with any kind of ground loop. All you had to do was plug the sub in anywhere and turn it on (with no inputs attached) and you would instantly get a 70-80 db "hum".

    I would try your sub (with nothing else attached) in multiple circuits in your house. If you are still getting a hum bring it to a friends house and try it there.

    Your sub could be toast.



  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,517
    I've had a cap go bad in the sub plate power supply section do the same^^^^
  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    so... if you plug the subwoofer in to a different circuit... hum? No hum? Heck, use an extension cord -- if it doesn't hum, you'll have more data than you did before.

    :|
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    so... if you plug the subwoofer in to a different circuit... hum? No hum? Heck, use an extension cord -- if it doesn't hum, you'll have more data than you did before.

    :|

    Ok I’ll try that. I think the outcome we be the same as it was when I plugged the receiver in at different plug ins around the house. Hum was there no matter where I plugged it in, with absolutely nothing plugged into it. This only started after my electrician wired the new dedicated power runs. Very strange.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    Might be time to go back to the panel, insert legal segment here: contact a professional if you aren't authorized and qualified...and start checking everything in the panel. Make sure all phases are correct, things are tight, perhaps use a heat sensing device to check for potential arcing. Check all grounds and make sure anything metal in the conduit run is properly bonded. If none of that helps, move.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,517
    kharp1 wrote: »
    If none of that helps, move.

    LMAO

  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Might be time to go back to the panel, insert legal segment here: contact a professional if you aren't authorized and qualified...and start checking everything in the panel. Make sure all phases are correct, things are tight, perhaps use a heat sensing device to check for potential arcing. Check all grounds and make sure anything metal in the conduit run is properly bonded. If none of that helps, move.

    Yeah I’m going to call my electrician in the morning and pick his brain. He might have some ideas.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 2,023
    Could be as simple as poorly manufactured electrical outlets.

    Lot of humidity in unconditioned basements, and that can create havoc in poorly manufactured outlets.
  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    Ok. So I bought a couple of the PS Audio Noise Harvesters and plugged them into the outlet the sub is plugged into. The lights blink like crazy. This is a dedicated line with nothing else on the circuit. So that means I just have noisy power in my home. I’m thinking that when I had the system upstairs it was a louder room and I just didn’t hear the sub humming. So now I’m thinking about a PS Audio Power regenerator like the Power Plant 5 or even the 10. Pricy units for sure. Any suggestions on another product that would do what the PS Audio power regenerator do? I do have a good (well supposed to be good) conditioner the PS Audio Quintet. I can plug the Noise Harvesters into the Quintet and the lights flicker like mad as well indicating noise. So clearly the Quintet is doing nothing in regards to cleaning up the power. Any thoughts
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    Did you unplug the sub and check the noise then? Try going from circuit with nothing plugged in other than the harvester. Then one by one start plugging your pieces in and see when the noise starts. You could have a problem in your plate amp. Just spit balling.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • jayman_1975jayman_1975 Posts: 672
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Did you unplug the sub and check the noise then? Try going from circuit with nothing plugged in other than the harvester. Then one by one start plugging your pieces in and see when the noise starts. You could have a problem in your plate amp. Just spit balling.

    Yes. It flashed the same with the sub unplugged. So a dedicated line with nothing plugged in but the harvester and it blinks indicating noise. Time to call me electrician maybe.
    Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company
    Arcam CD37
    Monitor Audio Gold GS 60
    Revolver Audio Music 5 towers.(surround)
    Vandersteen V2W
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,971
    Since you have gear humming upstairs and in the basement it seems to me you have a poor or non-existant earth ground, which would also be the cause of noise on the lines in addition to the PS Audio Quintet as it uses the ground to dump the noise.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,816
    F1nut wrote: »
    Since you have gear humming upstairs and in the basement it seems to me you have a poor or non-existant earth ground, which would also be the cause of noise on the lines in addition to the PS Audio Quintet as it uses the ground to dump the noise.

    ... plausible and -- ahem -- rather terrifying if that is indeed the case. Were I the OP, I'd get a good electrician in there pronto. You may have more at risk that a little hum. :(
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    Usually more a nuisance than terrifying, but, can end up a huge problem. We've traced several major distinctions at work to bad ground. If you're uncomfortable poking around in your panel then by all means call a pro. I periodically go through my panel and receptacles and check connections.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
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