REL Acoustics Carbon Fibre Limited

tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
Anyone have experience with the REL Carbon Fibre Limited subs?

I have avoided subs the last few years but I am starting to wonder if my so called full-range speakers (Legacy Focus S/E) would benefit from providing help in the lowest region.

From my research I understand high-level input would be best for better system integration. This sub has them and from what I have read could be the best use of high-level integration in the industry. I would need two since I am running mono block amplifiers and a pair would also provide better system cohesion.

The cross-over would likely be set to its lowest setting to not overlap the mains but only fill in where they drop off.

I have watched many uTube videos and read many white papers that support both ‘do it’ and ‘dont’. Our lovely internet will tell you whatever you want to hear (pun intended).

From you polkies that have been down this path please provide some experiences you’ve had along with pros and cons either way.

As always thanks for input.

2 Channel
Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

Comments

  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 2,132
    Can’t speak about that specific sub, but I think that every speaker can benefit from external subs. Reason being is that you position your speaker for the best overall presentation in your room. That positioning may not be the best position for bass. I’m sure there are exceptions.

    Your particular speakers are one of the few out there that are capable of producing the low freqs, that wouldn’t need a sub, if positioning for optimum bass response, by some coincidence is also the best position for overall presentation. Best way to find out is room sweeps, from 20-80 Hz. Providing one has the gear and wants to invest the time, that will answer your question.

    As far as Rel products, in a strictly 2-channel application I personally can’t think of a better choice. Some will disagree, and agurably JBL, Funk, Seaton, and a few others may be preferred. I’ll not argue with them, they all sound slightly different so once again the best for one may not be the best for others.

    I do think if you get an external sub, you’ll want to reconsider that lowest setting idea. I would think somewhere in the 40-60 Hz range is where you’ll find issues, weather using your ear or room sweeps.

  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    edited March 2019
    rpf65 thanks for the feedback. I will play with the crossover setting and look into doing some sweeps.

    I should be able to get one on loan to help with my decision. Just wish I could get two.
    Post edited by tratliff on
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,870
    The S5 with the Gibraltar woofer I believe?

    I looked at getting a couple just recently. Deal killer for me was lack of paramterics.

    I have not heard it personally.

    My friend has dual Gibraltar G1 however so I’m sure they sound similar
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    + Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 23,239
    I run a single S5 with my SDA-SRS 1.2TL's and had no troubles with pulling signal from both of my monoblocks, so you can start with just one. It integrates so well with my SDA's that I don't even know it's there, but I can feel the reinforcement of the bottom end. It really tightened things up without drawing attention to itself and instead placed more focus on the music. They are a great sub as the regular S5 SHO, so I can only imagine the Carbon will be that much better.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    Joey_V wrote: »
    The S5 with the Gibraltar woofer I believe?

    I looked at getting a couple just recently. Deal killer for me was lack of paramterics.

    I have not heard it personally.

    My friend has dual Gibraltar G1 however so I’m sure they sound similar

    @Joey_V How was the system with dual Gibraltar’s? Would be nice but I can’t stretch my budget that far.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    I run a single S5 with my SDA-SRS 1.2TL's and had no troubles with pulling signal from both of my monoblocks, so you can start with just one. It integrates so well with my SDA's that I don't even know it's there, but I can feel the reinforcement of the bottom end. It really tightened things up without drawing attention to itself and instead placed more focus on the music. They are a great sub as the regular S5 SHO, so I can only imagine the Carbon will be that much better.

    @nooshinjohn Tell me more about your integration with the monoblocks. How did you connect the S5 to them? Red to left positive, yellow to right positive and where did you connect the black lead? Seems straight forward to me but REL advised me against it.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    It really tightened things up without drawing attention to itself and instead placed more focus on the music. They are a great sub as the regular S5 SHO, so I can only imagine the Carbon will be that much better.

    I have the single S5 in the system now. Your description is exactly what I have found.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 23,239
    The ground lead is jumpered to the grounds of both amps. Not the optimal solution, but my amps support that. You need to check with your amplifier maker and see what they say.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    The ground lead is jumpered to the grounds of both amps. Not the optimal solution, but my amps support that. You need to check with your amplifier maker and see what they say.

    Thanks for the info. I’ll give them a call tomorrow to see what they say. But I do think I have made up my mind to get two. So it really should not matter.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 23,239
    I would try with one first. Two would be harder to tune I would think. The last thing you would want is to actually have them start to dominate.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,527
    I would try with one first. Two would be harder to tune I would think. The last thing you would want is to actually have them start to dominate.

    Actually, it makes tuning for nulls, peaks, etc much easier with 2 subs. Ideally, 4 subs at center points of each wall is the best solution to cancel out those peaks and nulls but it isn't that easy to implement in the real world.

    You can always move the gain down more to avoid subs overpowering the mains. At one point while building my surrounds and subs for the theater, I was using my tiny office for testing and had 4 18" sealed subs in here and was able to dial them down enough so that they blended seamlessly with the 8" coaxial surrounds I was testing out. But using the multiple subs gave a much better overall balance tonally so that I could get everything dialed in well.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,870
    Duals give better balance.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    + Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,527
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Duals give better balance.

    Did you just TLDR me, bro?!?

    :#:D
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    edited March 2019
    So, I placed the order for a pair of the Carbon Fibre Limited.

    I’m still testing with the single S5 and really liking the authority this adds to the system.

    Will be interesting to have 2 knowing how one performs and also what the limited, with the upgraded driver, will provide.

    Should be 1-2 weeks before I have them. I’ll post some pictures and listening thoughts after I give them a good run.

    Thanks for the thoughts and ideas!
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 23,239
    If you need a new home for the stock S5, I may be interested....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement V2 cartridge and Origin Conqueror Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 1,152
    If you need a new home for the stock S5, I may be interested....

    Sorry John. It’s a loaner from the dealer. It’s going back when I pick up the pair.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables
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