Amplifier

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  • @Jeremie, considering that Outlaw 5000, I found a Pro review on Audioholics wedsite. That 5 channel amp was given by the dude who ran all the test "specs", it tested out way above its price and pre him says it wasn't going back..lol that it was staying put. I do believe your a3020 would drive just your center channel and have no problem keeping up with any amp your add just about. After all using just the power supply in your a3020 to drive just a center channel, with the power at the rail that unit has, plus factoring in the size of the caps, what at least two 15,000ufs? I would bet they are more alone 18,000ufs. Think about it Jeremie, that's a flagship unit being used as a pre-pro to drive just the center
  • jeremie
    jeremie Posts: 246
    @Oldschool59 would use the 5000 for the front stage. The 3020 would run the rest of the 8 Speakers. FP, sides, rear and RP speakers
    Receiver Yamaha 3070 *Emotiva xpa5 * Behringer iNuke 6000dsp *Monster Cable HTS 3500 -- line conditioner * Panamax 5300 * Apple 4K * Panasonic UB820 * JVC NX5 * Silver Ticket thin bezel 120”
    LSIM - Fronts 707 * Center 706c * Sides 702 * Rear 703 *FP RC85i * RP RC65i * Sub (2) SI HT18
  • DSkip wrote: »
    Cheap option: http://www.ebay.com/itm/182733237373?rmvSB=true

    Vintage Mitsubishi amplifiers are underrated, but if you do buy one, prepare to have them recapped due to their age. I preferred the one above to the HCA-750a and a similarly powered Rotel. Of the three, the 750a was my least favorite.

    If you wanted new, I'd recommend the A23 over the 2250 v2, especially with the LSiM.

    @DSkip, I see you mention Parasounds A23, 2250v2. If you don't mind Sir, I am on the fence between the two. Both have very good reviews on them, the a23 being a "John Curl", the 2250v2 obviously having a much greater output big power supply and so fourth. I would greatly appreciate your thought differences between the two besides the power ratings. I have research both to great extent, the a23 seems to have premium components built into it, not to say the 2250v2 is an after thought design. Thanks Dskip", for all your great advice and tips on this forum. It's members like you and the other Old-Timers in here that keeps us coming back and hanging.

    Not sure about a larger power supply in the 2250v2. Both the 2250v2 and the A23 are rated for 45 volts of current per channel, wattage is a measure of power, current is what gets the job done when the load is heavy. Without the current the watts don't really matter, clipping isn't nice. I'm just about done breaking in my A23 and I have only good things to say about it. It can actually power my SRS 2.3's to levels that are higher then needed and won't trip the tweeter protection like my Adcom 5802 did at those sound levels. I'm really impressed by the A23. It makes my monitor 7 series 2's and CRS's sound incredible too. It has really surprised me.

    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    jeremie wrote: »
    @Oldschool59 would use the 5000 for the front stage. The 3020 would run the rest of the 8 Speakers. FP, sides, rear and RP speakers

    I see now, I didn't realize you are going full tilt with the surround 9.2? or 11.2?..than yeah a five channel like the 5000 which by the way is what? 6 bills? 125 watts x 5.. but it tested out at if I remember right over 130 × 5 into 8 ohms and a 180 into 4 ohms x 5. maybe a 7 × amp added would be in order? Since your going all out..But to save on the bucks adding just a two channel amp to drive just L/R Mains and the Yammy driving all the surrounds may not be enough, your HTR isn't a small room..
    Post edited by Oldschool59 on
  • TNTsTunes wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    Cheap option: http://www.ebay.com/itm/182733237373?rmvSB=true

    Vintage Mitsubishi amplifiers are underrated, but if you do buy one, prepare to have them recapped due to their age. I preferred the one above to the HCA-750a and a similarly powered Rotel. Of the three, the 750a was my least favorite.

    If you wanted new, I'd recommend the A23 over the 2250 v2, especially with the LSiM.

    @DSkip, I see you mention Parasounds A23, 2250v2. If you don't mind Sir, I am on the fence between the two. Both have very good reviews on them, the a23 being a "John Curl", the 2250v2 obviously having a much greater output big power supply and so fourth. I would greatly appreciate your thought differences between the two besides the power ratings. I have research both to great extent, the a23 seems to have premium components built into it, not to say the 2250v2 is an after thought design. Thanks Dskip", for all your great advice and tips on this forum. It's members like you and the other Old-Timers in here that keeps us coming back and hanging.

    Not sure about a larger power supply in the 2250v2. Both the 2250v2 and the A23 are rated for 45 volts of current per channel, wattage is a measure of power, current is what gets the job done when the load is heavy. Without the current the watts don't really matter, clipping isn't nice. I'm just about done breaking in my A23 and I have only good things to say about it. It can actually power my SRS 2.3's to levels that are higher then needed and won't trip the tweeter protection like my Adcom 5802 did at those sound levels. I'm really impressed by the A23. It makes my monitor 7 series 2's and CRS's sound incredible too. It has really surprised me.

    @TNT, Nice, I see your keen to the fact that all watts are not created equal. I am going to try to find what the amp pull is for both units at the wall outlet. At 46V for both units at my best uneducated guess? Umm, 4 to 5 amps? My last amp was 200W into 8 ohms x 2 and if I remember right it was capable of pulling 5 amps at the outlet but that at max amp output.
  • Amp draw can depend on the amp design. Class A draws more then A/B and way more then a class D amp.

    Here is an interesting chart. parasound.com/support/Parasound%20Amp%20BTU%20Ratings.pdf
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • The A23 is rated for 700watt draw max at 4 ohms. That's about 6 amps at 115v.

    The 2250v2 is rated at 1000watt max draw. That's about 8.7 amps at 115v.

    An A21 has a similar power out as the 2250v2. It's rated at 250w into 8 ohms and 400w at 4ohms but can provide 60V per channel which is 15 more volts per channel the 2250v2.

    An A21 is rated for 1500 watt max draw at 4ohms. That's about 13 amps at 115v.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    Amp draw can depend on the amp design. Class A draws more then A/B and way more then a class D amp.

    Here is an interesting chart. parasound.com/support/Parasound%20Amp%20BTU%20Ratings.pdf

    @TNTsTunes , Thanks!! Don't know where are how you got that BTU list, but that a23 is a lil beast! Dude I wish I had ran into you back in 2011 I would have never given them amps a first thought, that was money Not well spent on my part. I don't regret selling them off. I won't mentioned the manufacturer cause I don't believe in gear bashing. I will say this I am sure glad that blu- Kool-Aid taste is gone..
  • I don't know why I was stating volts per channel.... It's amps per channel... Duh.

    A23 and 2250v2 have up to 45 amps per channel. The A21 puts out up to 60 amps per channel.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • TNTsTunes wrote: »
    I don't know why I was stating volts per channel.... It's amps per channel... Duh.

    A23 and 2250v2 have up to 45 amps per channel. The A21 puts out up to 60 amps per channel.

    I knew the 45v was a typo, lol...I did the same thing just look at my post above...lolo..45v. Be like them box avr's that state 1015 watts output into 6 ohms that Sony, Onkyo, are using as stat specs.
  • Buy a used HCA-1500, better amp than the A23 or the 2250.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • sgmsmg
    sgmsmg Posts: 542
    2 Channel
    Pre:Bryston BP173
    Amp:Bryston 14B3
    Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
    Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
    Display: Sony XBR65Z9F

    Home Theater
    Pre: Anthem AVM90/JBL SDP-55
    Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
    Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
    Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
    Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
    Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
    Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
    Display: Sony XBR85Z9G
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited September 2017
    Way overpriced.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    jeremie wrote: »
    Thoughts on an outlaw 5000? Bi amp to the front and one on the center?
    +1
    @jeremie, I must apologize I have a bad habit of not reading some post through. When I was running through this thread I must admit, what I saw was: Thoughts on outlaw 5000, I stopped right there and jumped into my thought process on just your surrounds, center and over looked the fact of using 4 of the channels to Bi-amp and one for just the center using the 5000. That idea
    Is an excellent choice of using it that way. Now as You know most idealist with this hobby will say, umm but that's not a true way to "really" Bi-amp without removing the crossover network in each speaker in which they would be absolutely correct. But I believe I feel why your thinking of using 4 dedicated channels to power your L/R mains with them 707's, being 4 ohm drive and having 4 dedicated power rails? come to think of it when I had my LSi's that's exactly what I should have done with my 5 channel amp. I was thinking at one time of using 4 monoblock amps that way on my LSi's but chickened out cause of the cost factor of 4 monoblock amps even though BI- amping my mains like that would give independent power supplies. You would in my humble opinion would definitely have a nice front soundstage for sure. Also freeing up the Yammy to power the surrounds and down the road add a amp to power the surrounds if you choose to do so around later on. That's one tip I surely am pocketing for myself.
  • jeremie
    jeremie Posts: 246
    @Oldschool59 I just want to give them more power than the 130 watts. Just off my Yamaha tonight in 2 channel mode I was more than happy with them.
    Receiver Yamaha 3070 *Emotiva xpa5 * Behringer iNuke 6000dsp *Monster Cable HTS 3500 -- line conditioner * Panamax 5300 * Apple 4K * Panasonic UB820 * JVC NX5 * Silver Ticket thin bezel 120”
    LSIM - Fronts 707 * Center 706c * Sides 702 * Rear 703 *FP RC85i * RP RC65i * Sub (2) SI HT18
  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    jeremie wrote: »
    @Oldschool59 I just want to give them more power than the 130 watts. Just off my Yamaha tonight in 2 channel mode I was more than happy with them.

    Jeremie, I had posted an update on the way you was thinking of using the 5000. Don't know what happen to it. I was editing that post and when I clicked on submit it disappeared. So yeah 4 channels Bi-amped to power the mains and one for the center. It would give you 4 dedicated rails for the bi amping and one rail for the center. Running the 5000 that way to me would be getting the most out of that 5000, But since I ain't no engineer please don't quote me on that. I have thought of using four monoblocks cause of having 4 dedicated power supplies and dedicated power rails. But chickened out because of the cost factor.
  • I am signing out I was reading and all of a sudden some of your posts on your thread on my end is showing up as duplicates that you just posted confusing? Maybe Polks website is having difficulties? Gremlins!
  • jeremie
    jeremie Posts: 246
    Ok, this will be the last question about amps :). I am buying either a emotiva or monolith. Not sure on channels, but at least 3. Will my Yamaha 3020 drive my lsim fx702 and rear 703 ok, plus my front and rear presence speaker or should I get a 5 or 7 channel amp for the lsim?
    Receiver Yamaha 3070 *Emotiva xpa5 * Behringer iNuke 6000dsp *Monster Cable HTS 3500 -- line conditioner * Panamax 5300 * Apple 4K * Panasonic UB820 * JVC NX5 * Silver Ticket thin bezel 120”
    LSIM - Fronts 707 * Center 706c * Sides 702 * Rear 703 *FP RC85i * RP RC65i * Sub (2) SI HT18
  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    What's the price for that EMO 3 channel? I had EMO amps back in the day sold them off. The XPA-2 luved it a lot..also the XPA-5 and I had two monoblocks luved them to..The EMO 5 channel was excellent for HT.
  • jeremie
    jeremie Posts: 246
    1k or so.
    Receiver Yamaha 3070 *Emotiva xpa5 * Behringer iNuke 6000dsp *Monster Cable HTS 3500 -- line conditioner * Panamax 5300 * Apple 4K * Panasonic UB820 * JVC NX5 * Silver Ticket thin bezel 120”
    LSIM - Fronts 707 * Center 706c * Sides 702 * Rear 703 *FP RC85i * RP RC65i * Sub (2) SI HT18
  • Oldschool59
    Oldschool59 Posts: 67
    edited September 2017
    If I had the set-up you have, me speaking for myself I would want no less than 200 X 2 front L/R Mains. I had 500 X 2 with the XPA-2 because my LSi-15 where 4 ohms so where the rest. But the the XPA-5 ran the center and surrounds. Emotiva changed up a lot in their power amps. I believe they are using a "switching" power supply? I could be wrong on that. I just like Big Power supplies in a A/B design amp. But from what I read the ones who have them like them. Me? Parasound, Monolith. Outlaw, Emotive in that order..I have looked at Sunfire amps, nice amps. If I could afford? My 1st would be Parasound or the Sunfire..but since I am not big money grip. Outlaw, Monoliths..3 or 5 channels..
  • jeremie
    jeremie Posts: 246
    I think I am going to order the monolith once their monthly 20% coupon comes out. Might get the 7x200 or 5x200 as it’s the best bang for the buck.
    Receiver Yamaha 3070 *Emotiva xpa5 * Behringer iNuke 6000dsp *Monster Cable HTS 3500 -- line conditioner * Panamax 5300 * Apple 4K * Panasonic UB820 * JVC NX5 * Silver Ticket thin bezel 120”
    LSIM - Fronts 707 * Center 706c * Sides 702 * Rear 703 *FP RC85i * RP RC65i * Sub (2) SI HT18
  • But short answer on your Yammy, yes they will drive them good. After all they will be used as surrounds right? I would go for a killer front sound stage first. Then you could add more rails down the road if you go with the EMO, but you would have to send it back to them to have the power rails installed... you definitely have lots of options for sure.
  • jeremie wrote: »
    I think I am going to order the monolith once their monthly 20% coupon comes out. Might get the 7x200 or 5x200 as it’s the best bang for the buck.

    Your right for new, it is the best bang for the buck. Built by ATi, 5 years of warranty. I didn't know that Monoprice had a coupon deal? Thanks for the tip Jeremle..I am in the process buying convertible mustang, so i have to put off my gear upgrades for a few months..I first need a AVR with pre-outs. I am hoping before the year is out to do just that. I am watching RZ810, and A1070 on accessories4less and will pair that up with the Parasound A23 than hoping to snatch up a pair of Martin Logan 40's, about the middle of next year. Now if Polk 705's go on sale again I'll snatch them up. It's a music first thing with me..