Tweeter not working SDA CRS

tat
tat Posts: 159
edited August 2016 in The Clubhouse
So I just rec'd a pair of SDA CRS f5rom 1984 with double SL1000 tweeters. Gorgeous real walnut, unfortunately poor packing by FEDEX franchise has left a couple dented corners.

Now my concern is the stereo tweeter is not working. So far I have:

1) confirmed tweeter has DCR 7.9 ohms unhooked
2) confirmed fuse continuity across 2 posts
3) switched working SL1000 (Phase pos) and stereo tweet with same results..no stereo tweet
4) measured 4 ohm DCR when tweeters both wired in

Next up is to look inside and make sure no loose wires etc. I am scared it will be a blown component in the crossover (which I have never worked on before). Any suggestions or experience is much appreciated. Thanks. WOW these things pump alotta bass for small speakers!~ just like I remember.
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Comments

  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    Okay I have searched and cannot find confirmation on which drivers are the stereo and which are dimensional. I think I remeber the inside are stereo, is that correct?
    Thanks.
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited August 2016
    UPDATE: working now..after disassembling etc I finally found it is sketchy interconnect that only works when held certain way. The wire has pulled out at the plug, as happens freq with old cables.

    However, the left stereo tweeter seems lower output than the right. If anything my exp is left channel is louder usually. Gonna switch with another hope improves...could be caps etc though. I think I got a low DCR reading on the left tweeter so may be damaged. lower ohms usually means louder output in my experience with guitar amps but perhaps different here.
    Post edited by tat on
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited August 2016
    Is the wiring the same for left and right speakers...color wires go to same speakers same polarity, or is the polarity reversed (wire color anyway) for L and R channels? I am wondering if I have correct polarity on left tweet, that would explain lower output (could damge too). I marked what wenty where when disconnecting, but may have messed up lol. No + or - indication on tweets makes it tough.

    If someone could confirm Black wire goes on inside right of stereo tweet (looking from front) for left channel that would be great.
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    I suppose aging components in the XO could cause the imbalance between L/R tweeters I am hearing. The tweeters are definitely all working now, but the Right channel has more presence etc. which disrupts the soundstage a bit...enough for me to hear but not most folks. Is this a pretty typical result of againg caps etc in Polks? It is almost like there is a blanket over the Left speaker. Shall I look into changing the high end caps/resistors 1st?
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  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    Left channel shown, the black and white leads on top go to interconect jack, on the right channel same cables are blue and white.

    q6jvvsym90bd.jpeg
  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
    edited August 2016
    It sounds like you may have a phase issue. It may require you to confirm wiring being the same for both speakers. Most users on here disconnect the SDA (outside) tweeter since they eliminated it on later versions of their speaker. They found that it created some spacey type of effects on some music. I would use the two best matched tweeters in the stereo positions and leave the SDA tweeters out of the circuit.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    Black or blue are positive. White or green are negative.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    Thanks guys. Im gonna have to admit I do prefer the Peerless to the SL1000 from what I have heard so far, especially with the tuner with some background noise. This slight imbalance is gonna drive me crazy so ill have to track down the cause; its like the highest freq's are slightly rolled off on the left channel. Oddly they seem to come back some when I pan R or L with balance control. If I switch channels inputting the speakers I get the same result, the rolloff doesnt follow the power amp output to the right speaker, it stays rolled off on the left. Guess those Mills/Sonicaps F1 suggested are in my future. Hopefully Ill get a damage claim ck to pay for em.

    Amazing how much low end these little guys have though, I used to have folks tell me the lows must be boosted in the CRS (-:
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    Well I finally figured out the final issue. I went thru damaged boxes (real walnut too) from pathetic packing by FEDEX store, to no tweeter/stereo, to discovering intermittent interconnect cable (loose plug), and finally after switching tweeters within the same speaker several times, I discovered BOTH left channel tweeters are damaged. Incidentally, the left speaker suffered the brunt of the physical damage as well...so the drop/shock may have frazzled the hairthin leads in the SL1000's. They technically seem to work as there is sound coming from them, albeit it rolled off and muted. Good news is I still have 2 good tweeters and have finally installed them into the stereo sides of each CRS. Huge imporovement obviously.

    But I tell you, having been away from SDA's for awhile, and using a rare power amp, meant I had a ton of tests to perform and things to rule out. I went thru the whole setting up routine with the panning left and right, checking polarity etc. If I was psychic I woulda guessed both the left ones were out, but I figured the chances were too slim and looked elsewhere. thanks for everyones 2 cents, especially the comment suggesting pulling the best 2 tweets for stereo spots and cutting out the DFimensional (or using the weaker tweets). A headache has is beginning to look up...now for the claim check in order to repair/recap these babies into the new millenium.
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited August 2016
    Can someone tell me the BEST way to disconnect the DIMENSIONAL tweeter in the SDA CRS with fuses? Just pull the bottom fuse? Or is interupting the signal somewhere else in the chain preferable?

    Several folks who know what they're talking about have recommended disconnecting it, but I think I prefer the sound with mine connected...at least vs. the dimensional fuse pulled. The high end has more space, bigger. Also more high end noise/hiss though with some sources.
    But I should clarify the tweeters in the Dimensional spots are damaged and do not perform correctly, especially when mounted in the Stereo position, where the high end becomes rolled off. If only 1 damaged tweet in stereo spot: terribly uneven and one-sided. Maybe the damage is a happy accident that is an improvement on both of Polk's originals designs! Certainly wouldn't be the 1st time an acciedent has led to a technological breakthrough! Also of note is very limited asource material, mostly classical and jazz radio via less than perfect signals (even mono) and Grateful Dead bootlegs (CD) because all my recordings are in another state I am about to move to.
    Post edited by tat on
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  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    Ok thanks. Funny thing is the tweets are not dead, they definitely have sound coming out but it is rolled off or lower output. Had they read open i woulda suspected they were broken all along and the seller lied, but they read good DCR just have screwed up response (both from left channel). they took a pounding very poor packing by FEDEX store.
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  • nbrowser wrote: »
    Pull the tweeter, unhook it, safely cover up the ends of the wires to prevent short circuits, shove the wire back inside the cabinet away from anything that moves like the MWs and reinstall said tweeter. Oh and this would be a good spot to install the dead tweeters anyways as simple hole plugs....

    I just connected a pair of SDA CRS that have sat unused for a couple of years. I didn't have the interconnect cable connected at first. I'm assuming that is needed to get sound from the outside tweeters? I then connected the IC cable and I now have sound from one of the outside tweeters. I'll have to look into that later. The rest of the drivers are working.

    Do you guys that disconnect the outer tweeters, still use the interconnect cable? Does it still serve a purpose if the outer tweeters are disconnected? These are set up temporarily, so I may just disconnect the IC for now. Any thoughts?

    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    edited October 2016

    Do you guys that disconnect the outer tweeters, still use the interconnect cable? Does it still serve a purpose if the outer tweeters are disconnected? These are set up temporarily, so I may just disconnect the IC for now. Any thoughts?

    Carl if your has the fuses I'd just take out the fuse its that simple. Yes the cable still serves a purpose as it still need to send a signal to the midwoofer on the dimensional side for the SDA effect.

    if your do not have fuses yes remove the leads to the SDA tweeter and tape so not to make a connection or short.

  • Thanks for the reply. No fuses. I want to find out why the tweeter isn't working anyway.

    These are positioned terribly, but I really don't have an ideal location left for them.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited October 2016
    If you have a multi-meter set it to the lowest ohm calibration and measure the non-working tweeter. It should read about 6.5 ohms or so I think. If you get no reading or a zero, the driver is blown and needs replacing.

    I still don't know what wrong with mine, I think they had proper readings for DCR (above). I pull the top fuse as described above and they sound pretty fantastic. Not as good as I expect them to when I replace the SL1000's. The 1000's can be pretty harsh especially on poor recordings.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...
  • Mine have the SL2000 tweeters.
    I pulled them and swapped right and left. Now I still have no sound from the right channel, as before, so it's not the tweeter. I assume there must be a problem in the xover or another connection that I can't see without pulling all of the drivers. That's for another day. I'm going to disconnect the extra tweeter for now and listen to them.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • One of the tweeters read 8.7 and the other was 8.9 ohms.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    I concur with your diagnosis. I don't know anything about the XO unfortunately.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    edited October 2016
    One of the tweeters read 8.7 and the other was 8.9 ohms.

    that should indicate they're both good. I'll bet some resistor or something else on the board is bad
  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited October 2016
    yes that's a good guess. 8.7 seems a bit high to me but certainly not way off, shouldn't affect output. IF I recall the 2000's are 8 ohm, and 8 ohms DCR is typically lower than 8, higher readings can reveal dirty connections, which can be cleaned to return to normal. But I wouldn't worry about it they are very close to normal.

    I might set he meter to beep when connectivity is made and then check the various parts of the XO circuit for a break on connectivity. Getting no sound where you get sound on the working XO could reveal the culprit component. But checking real values against the schematic is more revealing still. You probably need some understanding of the circuit to do this effectively though.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...
  • It was a free Harbor Freight meter, so I don't know how accurate it is. I know nothing about reading schematics. The outer tweets are now both disconnected and the speakers are playing now and sound really good to me.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • Just a thought...the DMM meter was reading 1.0 before I took a reading, not zero. I could have missed a zeroing button somewhere. If so, both tweets measure slightly under 8 ohms.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    Oh I thought the inside stereo tweet was having an issue, now it sounds like it is 1 of the outer "dimensional" tweets which most folks disconnect anyway. Love mine too...CRS were my 1st real speaker purchase, I lost those awhile back and recently replaced them with the earlier 2 tweeter model. My originals had the 2000 tweets which I liked better than the 1000's in my current CRS.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...
  • The stereo (inside) tweets always worked. I didn't pull those.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    tat wrote: »
    Ok thanks. Funny thing is the tweets are not dead, they definitely have sound coming out but it is rolled off or lower output. Had they read open i woulda suspected they were broken all along and the seller lied, but they read good DCR just have screwed up response (both from left channel). they took a pounding very poor packing by FEDEX store.

    That's because the dimensional tweeter/driver(s) play at about half the volume of their stereo counterparts.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    edited October 2016
    Ok...If I remember correctly they had low output in the stereo slot as well though so I think there is still something wrong w/ them. I basically tried every tweet in every position to compare them.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...


  • F1nut wrote: »
    That's because the dimensional tweeter/driver(s) play at about half the volume of their stereo counterparts.

    After disconnecting the effect tweeters on my CRS, I noticed that the left speaker's treble was not as loud as the right speaker. I was going to install one of the crossovers I got from you in the right speaker because the effect tweeter did not work in that channel previously when both were connected. I assumed it was the crossover because all 4 tweeters measured OK and produced sound when I flip flopped them from one cab to the other.

    After removing all 4 tweeters this morning, I realized why the left channel was quieter than the right. Some idiot (me), disconnected the stereo tweeter in the left channel and the effect tweeter in the right channel. Doh! I then connected all 4 tweeter and they all worked fine. I'm not sure why the effect tweeter in the right channel did not work previously when I had all 4 connected. That issue was why I bought the crossovers from you in the first place.

    Anyway, I disconnected the effect tweeters in both cabinets and all is well. I must not have had a good connection with the effect tweeter in the right channel when all 4 were connected previously.

    Fortunately, someone was looking for a crossover and I was able to sell one of them. I still have a spare though.


    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    Just a thought...the DMM meter was reading 1.0 before I took a reading, not zero. I could have missed a zeroing button somewhere. If so, both tweets measure slightly under 8 ohms.

    Yes those meters are notoriously bad. (harbor frieght)
    Even the $20.00-25.00 walmart ones are far better, although still nothing great, they will at least give a fairly close reading.
  • tat
    tat Posts: 159
    F1nut wrote: »
    tat wrote: »
    Ok thanks. Funny thing is the tweets are not dead, they definitely have sound coming out but it is rolled off or lower output. Had they read open i woulda suspected they were broken all along and the seller lied, but they read good DCR just have screwed up response (both from left channel). they took a pounding very poor packing by FEDEX store.

    That's because the dimensional tweeter/driver(s) play at about half the volume of their stereo counterparts.

    Actually the 2 tweeters are lower output no matter where I hook them up: they are lower output in stereo position as well in other words. Maybe there is a cap going bad in the XO. I ran into some distortion (unreproducible) that doesn't seem to be related to the connections. Could be originating in the old adcom pre though. Finally getting around to ordering some 194's. I hesitated after hearing distortion but its very rare so Ill overlook it for now.
    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws are free...
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    The two SDA tweeters should not produce any sound with the cable disconnected.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk