Would you buy a demo?

C J T
C J T Posts: 127
edited October 2004 in Electronics
So I can get a yamaha 2400 for $800, demo. All packaging, remote, manual. The guy at the store said he thinks demos are ok as receivers have "no moving parts" and if anything, take time to break in.

If not, I will get the Denon 2805 for $1000 as the Yammie 2500 will be over $1500.

Thoughts?
RTI 12 fronts
RTI 8 rears
RTI 6 sides
CSI 5 center

HSU STF 3 sub
Panny 42" plasma
Denon 3805 receiver
Behringer EP1500 amp
Denon 2910 DVD
Oppo 980H DVD
Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
Post edited by C J T on

Comments

  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,505
    edited October 2004
    dont know much about the equipment you mentioned, but i can say i have bought demo's with no problems. i never have a problem with a few scratches here and their on my equipment, as long as it works 100%. i'm personally all for the bang for the buck.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Wiim Ultra. Jolida CD player. Fiio k11 R2R DAC, XTZ as300 Edge amp. Focal Cobalt 826 towers,

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Classe Audio 5 Preamp, DIY1200as2 Icepower Amp x 2, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E70 Velvet DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Polk LSi15's with MM840 woofer upgrade.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Schitt Saga 2 preamp, Topping a90 headphone amp, Mac Mini, Audiophonics Hypex NC252m amp, Polk r200's
  • Mjr7531
    Mjr7531 Posts: 856
    edited October 2004
    Personally I don't have problems with demos as I have bought a floormodel speakers myself, just make sure things on it aren't missing. The products should be under warrenty I believe, a real plus ;) I would double check the warrenty (my Rti6s were under warrenty, but then again, Polk is amazing), but if it works, I'd go for it.
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,623
    edited October 2004
    I'm not opposed to buying factory refurbished......but demo's scare me. Warranied, yes.......Peace of mind, no.....

    The nature of demo's is NOT to be gentle, nor is it to protect the product for it's longevity. The general mentality is beat the $hit out of it in the store, then take a new unit home.......
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited October 2004
    My home is filled with used, demoed, and refurbished audio equipment. Never had a problem. Got a pair of floor model RTi10's for about one-third of the MSRP price. The only thing I'm missing are the boxes. If it's a good deal, go for it.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
  • glemay
    glemay Posts: 574
    edited October 2004
    I don't see anything wrong with buying demos either. My Denon AVR-1803 was demo and works pretty good plus I got a good deal. Same with the AVR-2805 we just picked up for our boat, also a demo. It is a solid unit, great receiver and sound excellent.
    Main System:
    Denon AVR-2805, Polk Audio RTi70's, Polk Audio CSi40, Polk Audio FXi50, Paradigm PW-2200 v.2, Toshiba 42XV545U HDTV

    Second System:
    Denon AVR-1705, Polk Audio R40, Polk Audio CS245i, Polk Audio R15, Paradigm PS-1200a
  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited October 2004
    Demo models are typically beat up and abused. Hooked up incorrectly (depending on the store) or just flat out cranked by moron customers who love to turn knobs, no matter what they do. I'd say you need to get a better deal on that 2805 though, I sell them all day long at $850, under $800 when they're on sale (typically $781.99)
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    That's $1000 canadian for the 2805....

    anyways...the demo is gone....

    now, i will have to find one on line...anyone know where to get a Yammie 2400 in Canada, under $1000?
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • sowen010599
    sowen010599 Posts: 343
    edited October 2004
    The only dealer I know of even remotely close to me (50 miles) is still selling the 2400 for $1,000. They say it will probably stay at that price until they have the 2500 in stock. If you can get it for $638.21 ($800 CAD), I would say go for it. If it's a dealer, you'll have full warranty if anything goes wrong.

    Oops, just read your last post. Try online. You'll probably want to buy a warranty though. Yam won't honor a non-dealer purchased unit's warranty
    Go BIG or go home!
  • hamzahsh
    hamzahsh Posts: 439
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by C J T
    That's $1000 canadian for the 2805....

    anyways...the demo is gone....

    now, i will have to find one on line...anyone know where to get a Yammie 2400 in Canada, under $1000?

    Why don't you buy online! At:-

    http://www.audioshop.on.ca

    In my opinion they are one of the best Canadian Online retailers to buy HT products. Also they are authorized dealers of all the brands they carry. I bought my Adcom GFA-7605 5-ch amp from them. Mark Hallam is the host and will answer all your questions. Mark is a very helpful person, he answered all my questions and did a huge favour for me. There customer service is one of the best. When I received my Adcom amp one of the corners of the front panel was damaged and I got it exchanged for free with $0.00 amount. I paid $1500 for my Adcom GFA-7605 5-ch amp. Superb amp, sweet warm sounding with tons of power and crystal clear detail. Built like a tank and weighs 42 lbs. 125w x 5 RMS all channels driven, contains huge Torroidal Transformer.

    Here is the picture of my Adcom GFA-7605


    FRONT PANEL
    http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/showcase/closeup.php?userid=33134&pic=170_31_big.jpg

    REAR PANEL
    http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/showcase/closeup.php?userid=33134&pic=170_15_big.jpg

    They carry both Yamaha RX-V1400/2400 receivers.

    Yamaha 1400 - $999 including shipping
    Yamaha 2400 - $1149 including shipping.

    http://www.audioshop.on.ca/yamahareceivers.htm

    Get the 1400 because you're going to need an AMP anyways, 2400's 10w is not going to do anything for your RTi12s. It is not worth paying $149 more. Both receivers are identical with little to no differences. Most people end up using there receivers as a pre/pro in the future anyways.

    Also get the Adcom 2-ch amp for your RTi12's.

    Adcom GFA- 5400 - $1125
    or
    Adcom GFA-5500 - $1800

    http://www.audioshop.on.ca/adcomstereoamp.htm

    Remember Yamaha RX-V1400 puts only 45w x 7 RMS when all channels driven. In 2-ch probably 50w x 2 RMS both channels driven. RTi12 need lots of power, Dedicated AMP is a must for them.


    :) Good luck!
    Panasonic TH-50PX80U Plasma HDTV
    Polk Audio RT800i (fronts)
    Polk Audio CS400i (center)
    Polk Audio F/X1000 (side surrounds)
    Polk Audio RTi6 (back surrrounds)
    Velodyne CHT-15 (subwoofer)
    Yamaha RX-V1400 (Pre/Pro)
    NAD C272 (2-ch Amp)
    Adcom GFA-7605 (5-ch Amp)
    Toshiba SD-3109 (DVD/CD player)
    Malata DVP-580 (Multi-region DVD player)
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    ?????? I thought the Yamaha 2400 pushed 110 to all channels. If your figures are true, why upgrade from my Panasonic SA HE 200?

    Can someone please explain to me why i need an extra power amp and where it plugs in etc. Living in a small apartment, will I have any benefit to adding a power amp.
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • sowen010599
    sowen010599 Posts: 343
    edited October 2004
    It's actually rated at 120 watts, but only w/ 2 channels driven. Home Theater Magazine tested it. For them, with 2 channels driven, it slamed out 130.5 watts into 8 ohms, and 158.4 into 4 ohms.

    The need to drive all channels simultaneously just isn't there. So, knowing this, Yammy designed the 2400 to deliver 120 watts to any channel as it's needed. What that means is, when you are cranking a movie, every channel will receive full power, just not all at the same time, just as no movie is going to play full power out of every channel at the same time. It will smoke your Panny in every way you can think of.

    The RTi12's are not going to perform at their best with pretty much any reciever on the market. At some point, if you find you want more from your 12's, you will need to add an amp. 120 watts is not enough for those bad boys. An additional amp will plug into the "pre-out" connections on the back, and it will power the 12's. I don't think the Panny even has pre-out's, so you'd be out of luck with it.

    Benefit? You'll love the 2400. It may be everything, and do everything you want. I would suggest just getting it in, hooking it up, and seeing how you like it. If you think the 12's need more juice at that point, then look for an amp.
    Go BIG or go home!
  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited October 2004
    Not all demo's are created equal. I would never buy a demo from a mainstream electronics store. A higher end boutique generally has higher training for their salesman who generally care about their equipment.
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    Thanks Sowen

    i have asked Tour2Ma this too, stillwaiting for a response: So lets say i get the 1400 or 2400 and I add an amp eventually to the pre outs. The amp will power my 12's but I am confused to the rest of my system. I want a surround set up. Do I need more power to all channels? Or do I just use the amp when listening to 2 ch with music?

    Also with your specs on the Yammie.....it has the ability to listen to music out of all my speakers at once with the same power. What is the power rating then? That sounds cool as now my Pannie puts CD music into a simulated sound (Dolby Pro Logic 2)...will my rears take the power if they are RTi28's?

    Thanks for the help.
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • sowen010599
    sowen010599 Posts: 343
    edited October 2004
    The 2400, although only having 10 more watts than the 1400, has 50% larger caps. The 2400 has 2 15,000 microfarad caps, the 1400 has 2 10,000 microfarad caps. Everything I have ever read said that when you are looking at amps, you want a minimum of 30,000 microfarads. To put that into perspective, an HK AVR 310 I bought used a while back had two 7,400's! HA!

    Other feature the 2400 has that the 1400 does not....
    2 more DSP's (not that anybody cares!)
    A record-out selector
    Zone 2 video out
    2 12 volt triggers instead of one (used to turn on amps etc.)
    2 remote control IR inputs instead of one
    The almighty serial RS-232C port (turn a PC into the coolest remote ever!)
    The same killer remote that ships with the RX-Z9 flagship (mucho bettero)
    And 10 more watts per channel!!!! WOOT!!!! hehe

    Are those feature worth a couple hundred bucks? I dunno, I thought they were. Truth be told, I would have paid that for the serial port alone. Let's face it, a laptop remote is just super cool!

    The 2400 has more than enough power to power your entire system cleanly to simply stupid loud. Before amps, and with one sub firing, I could hit 109db with no problem, and more to go if you wanted to push it. The only point here is the 12's are damn fine speakers, they will sound stunning with just the 2400. They won't sound bad without another amp by any stretch of the imagination, it's only that they have EVEN MORE to offer with some serious power.

    The best thing you could do with the 2400 is to use it as is, and if you want more, amp up the 12's. Maybe even amp the front three channels. Then your 2400 will have much more power to spread around the rest of your channels. You don't need to amp them ALL. You would use the amp on the 12's all the time.

    The RTi28 is recommended to 125 watts. For ratings, you are on the bubble (good). You can go a lot higher if it's clean power.

    Yes, the Yammy will play 2 channel music (CD's and the like) out of all 7 channels (+ the sub). For that, you have 7 channel stereo, and Dolby IIx. Dolby is kinda cool, a neat effect. 7 channel stereo sucks. It's good for "environmental" or "background" but that's it. Figure this, the center plays L and R, all the R side speakers play the same thing, and the L does the same. Sounds pretty bad. Trust me, you will never use it. Even if you do, it's only even tolerable at low volume so power matters not. With DPLIIx, you're back to the same "different sounds for different speakers" thing so you aren't driving them all full tilt at the same time. It generates 7.1 channels from 2.
    Go BIG or go home!
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    Thanks Sowen..the 2400 sounds awesome

    can you give me an opinion? I just made a fe offers on EBAY..

    what would you buy?. all figures in US dollars/

    Denon 3805, $800..new, in the box

    Yamaha RXV 1400, $300 US...used private sale.

    Yamaha RXV 2400, $586 demo...option to pay $50 more for new in the box...

    of course I have to pay shipping, and maybe duty in Canada

    thanks
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • sowen010599
    sowen010599 Posts: 343
    edited October 2004
    I would get the 2400 new. When I was doing my shopping, I demoed every competing model I could get my hands on Elite, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, etc. etc. etc. The 2400 is the one I decided to keep. That's the strongest recommendation I can give it. Amazingly, I wasn't even considering Yamaha at the beginning. Fireshoes turned me on to the 2400, the rest is history.

    I also demoed it straight against the 1400. The 2400 sounded better. Maybe because of the bigger caps, I dunno. It just did. It is amazing how cheaply you can get them anymore.
    Go BIG or go home!
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    sowen....seems you know lots about Yamaha and I appreciate the responses...do you think the 2500 coming out in a month is worth $500 more?

    I have been reading about the Denon 3805 and it looks nice too. I was thinking the 2400 was more on par with the Denon 2805 but i saw on ebay a 3805 for $800 US. Here in Canada the 3805 is $1500 (Canadian Currency, approx $1200 US)
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • sowen010599
    sowen010599 Posts: 343
    edited October 2004
    If you really wanted to compare Yamaha and Denon models, it's more like this.......

    Yamaha - Denon
    1400 - 2803
    2400 - 3803
    1500 - 2805
    2500 - 3805

    To compare the 2400, and the 3805, in an unfair comparison. They are from 2 different model years. Even so, the only feature the 3805 has that 2400 doesn't is 1 more component input, and the Denon Link. Even with that, you really should hear the two. They both sound great. But when you do a direct comparison, the Denon has a sizzle in the highs. Kind of an analytical, digital-like sound. It doesn't have the neutrality the Yammy does. The Yammy has the most neutral un-colored tonality I have heard in a reciever. And the Denon doesn't have 16 dac's like they say it does, it has 8 in a differential configuration (sneaky). The closest thing I have heard to the Denon is Pioneer Elite. Tonally, they are very similar. The Yammy sounds more like separates.

    The 2400 and 2500 are essentially the same animal, the 2500 has added a few more features. The layout and amp sections are the same. I think they will sound essentially the same. It's a matter of, do you think the new features are worth the extra money. If you think they are, wait. If you don't, grab the 2400. As cheap as the 2400's have gotten, I would grab the 2400.
    Go BIG or go home!
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    Thanks Sowen.....I wish i could hear them both side by side but i can't...That's why i am asking so much. There isn't a 2400 to be found in my city.
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    Sowen...check out this link:

    http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/yamahaRX-V2500receiver.php

    Do these improvements justify waiting for the 2500? Something there about improved sound quality...
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited October 2004
    Originally posted by C J T
    Yamaha RXV 1400, $300 US...used private sale.
    I think my choice would be this 1400, I would then use the money saved on used 2 channel amplifier to power the mains.
  • C J T
    C J T Posts: 127
    edited October 2004
    What are some good names and model #s for 2 channel amps that would work good with the 1500? I see lots on ebay.
    RTI 12 fronts
    RTI 8 rears
    RTI 6 sides
    CSI 5 center

    HSU STF 3 sub
    Panny 42" plasma
    Denon 3805 receiver
    Behringer EP1500 amp
    Denon 2910 DVD
    Oppo 980H DVD
    Oppo HM-31 HDMI switcher
  • TAB
    TAB Posts: 41
    edited October 2004
    I have no problem at all with demos.............I purchase all my "demos" at www.ebay.com. :-)
    [HOME THEATRE]
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