OK, you people make poor decisions all the time so I'm coming to the experts!
Jstas
Posts: 14,806
I have a line on a 1983 Petroleum Blue Porsche 911SC.
I can get it for at least 10K under book.
It's in great condition with minor restoration work needed.
The reason I'm looking at this is because my dad wants me to find him a 911 turbo from the early years because he "wants to drive one before he dies".
Yeah, great, way too much drama there but whatever.
Anyway, an actual Porsche 930 (a turbo 911) goes for 6 figures in running condition. Everyone I know who has one or access to one is not going to let my dad drive one. If my dad was a bit more humble about it, maybe but he's not.
Besides, the 930 has a severe amount of turbo lag and they call it the windowmaker because of that. Inexperienced drivers (i.e.: my dad) will do something like get cocky in a turn and start hammering on it. The 3.0L to 3.3L flat 6 is torquey down low so it inspires confidence. But around 3000-3500 RPM, the turbo finally decides it's going to do something and you go from about 180 horses to 300+ in the blink of an eye. Sure, it's fun in a straight line but in a turn, it make the butt try and get ahead of the nose and you end up wrapped around a tree or pole or wall or other large, stationary object capable of shrugging off the inconsequential physics problem that is a 911.
So, the SC is essentially a Carrera 3 without the turbo. It's this >< short of the 911 race car.
It's also much better behaved with a much more linear power application.
In other words, my dad is not going to wrap his **** around a tree.
So my question is, should I go and get this for him because it's going to be as close to what he wants to do without killing himself or going bankrupt as he can?
The way I see it is it's going to put me out for a few years but I'm not going to let him be sole driver I will certainly take it out often enough and I will work on restoring it too. At $10K+ under book value I can recover all the cost and then some even with financing (can't do it any other way), especially if restored. If i sell it, that is. But given the age and the fact that they are at a point now where value bottomed out about 10 years ago and is steadily climbing, it's not a bad car to have hanging around. Especially in Petroleum Blue since it seems to be a desirable color.
So, the bad decision part, should I do it?
I can get it for at least 10K under book.
It's in great condition with minor restoration work needed.
The reason I'm looking at this is because my dad wants me to find him a 911 turbo from the early years because he "wants to drive one before he dies".
Yeah, great, way too much drama there but whatever.
Anyway, an actual Porsche 930 (a turbo 911) goes for 6 figures in running condition. Everyone I know who has one or access to one is not going to let my dad drive one. If my dad was a bit more humble about it, maybe but he's not.
Besides, the 930 has a severe amount of turbo lag and they call it the windowmaker because of that. Inexperienced drivers (i.e.: my dad) will do something like get cocky in a turn and start hammering on it. The 3.0L to 3.3L flat 6 is torquey down low so it inspires confidence. But around 3000-3500 RPM, the turbo finally decides it's going to do something and you go from about 180 horses to 300+ in the blink of an eye. Sure, it's fun in a straight line but in a turn, it make the butt try and get ahead of the nose and you end up wrapped around a tree or pole or wall or other large, stationary object capable of shrugging off the inconsequential physics problem that is a 911.
So, the SC is essentially a Carrera 3 without the turbo. It's this >< short of the 911 race car.
It's also much better behaved with a much more linear power application.
In other words, my dad is not going to wrap his **** around a tree.
So my question is, should I go and get this for him because it's going to be as close to what he wants to do without killing himself or going bankrupt as he can?
The way I see it is it's going to put me out for a few years but I'm not going to let him be sole driver I will certainly take it out often enough and I will work on restoring it too. At $10K+ under book value I can recover all the cost and then some even with financing (can't do it any other way), especially if restored. If i sell it, that is. But given the age and the fact that they are at a point now where value bottomed out about 10 years ago and is steadily climbing, it's not a bad car to have hanging around. Especially in Petroleum Blue since it seems to be a desirable color.
So, the bad decision part, should I do it?
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
Comments
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I would do itMagico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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I'd buy it too. The prices on anything Porsche Air cooled has climbed significantly in the last couple of years. That car is an investment imo.2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
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Daddy needs a Porsche!! Seriously, it sounds like fun, and it's another thing you two can share. I loved to talk cars with my dad.
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I say buy it. Think of the lasting memories you two will have. Oh and hurry before PFB sees this and decides to have it shipped!
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Buy it. But remember 3 things
1, even though it's not a turbo it's still very easy to get your a-s-s in trouble as it's still a rear happy car and will bite you if you don't respect it.
2. be prepared to fix things quite often and expect to pay a crap-ton of $$$ for said repairs/maintenance.
3. make sure repairs/maintenance are done by a very qualified Porsche mechanic.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
10k under book and minor restoration would be red flags for me. Save yourself the headache and pay an expert to inspect the car. If it has any minor rust, it usually turns into major rust once the car is disassembled. If your going to finance a project, save yourself from the frustration and buy one that's complete and forget the project.
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Agree, with above. For that much money get an expert inspection of the condition of the car so you know all the potential issues/costs before going in. Take the emotion out of the decision and buy it based on the data/info from the expert inspection. The seller is letting it go that low for a reason. You need to fully understand all the reasons.Music: Oppo103 - Parasound JC2 - Parasound A21- SDA 3.1
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Air-cooled Porsche prices are stupid right now, and the turbo cars especially. I think pricing is way out of line right now. Ten k back of book is one thing, but when these cars ar 30 percent or more over valued is another issue.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Good advice above on the expert inspection. Look for rust under the battery box especially. The earlier cars had transmission issues so check for synchromesh issues.
There is a great Porsche owners forum so asking model specific questions there is where I would start. They could most likely direct you to someone in your area qualified to do an inspection. With Porsche 10k under book can become 10k over book in a heartbeat. -
911's are HOT, HOT, HOT right now especially the early 80's models. An SC @ $10K under book is a HUGE red flag unless there are some special circumstances you haven't mentioned.
Inspection by a knowledgeable person is a MUST. Unless you are an expert on these years cars you won't know what to look for.
Perhaps you've already done the leg work in the owners forums and know what you're doing.........still have someone with knowledge look it over. Most of the common issues on these generation cars are expensive to repair and that could be the reason the current owner is getting rid of it.
Not saying that's a bad thing, just know what you're in for ahead of time.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
You do know there are places to rent these types of cars for a day, week. Rent him a newer version so he doesn't get his rear end in trouble. Let him drive it for a week, no messing around with repairs, gas it up and go.
A better gift, arrange a test drive at the Porsche HQ in Atlanta. You take some lessons, then take the car around the track. Make a father and son thing out of it, a mini vacation of sorts.HT SYSTEM-
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^^^ Ditto what "T" said ^^^AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
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tonyb has the right idea.If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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Remember, it will always be a black hole in which you shovel tons of money.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
John Megadeth wrote: »PFB's Boxster would still smoke it. /s
This is the best thing I've read all week.
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You do know there are places to rent these types of cars for a day, week. Rent him a newer version so he doesn't get his rear end in trouble. Let him drive it for a week, no messing around with repairs, gas it up and go.
A better gift, arrange a test drive at the Porsche HQ in Atlanta. You take some lessons, then take the car around the track. Make a father and son thing out of it, a mini vacation of sorts.
He's not interested in the new ones. He asked about the old ones.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
I say "Go for it!"
Don't be swayed by all these cautious yuppies.
It's your dad for christ sakes...Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
I'd hold out for something like an MGB... or a Borgward or a Citroën
I mean, if you're gonna be a m a s o chist, might as well go for the gusto.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »I'd hold out for something like an MGB... or a Borgward or a Citroën
I mean, if you're gonna be a m a s o chist, might as well go for the gusto.
....or an original Morgan +8
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
pretty much any British sports car... the more obscure, the better, eh?
maybe a TVR or a Marcos or... gimme a minute, I'll come up with some more...
ooh, ooh, ooh! ... or a Sunbeam!
I'd suggest an Austin-Healey or a Jensen Healey... but they might be too well-behaved.
Morgans were (are) really cool, though -- wooden frames. Remember the three-wheeled Morgans?
http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/3-wheeler/
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You do know there are places to rent these types of cars for a day, week. Rent him a newer version so he doesn't get his rear end in trouble. Let him drive it for a week, no messing around with repairs, gas it up and go.
A better gift, arrange a test drive at the Porsche HQ in Atlanta. You take some lessons, then take the car around the track. Make a father and son thing out of it, a mini vacation of sorts.
DING, DING, DING! We have a winner right here utilizing common sense!Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
How about a Sunbeam Alpine Tiger, or an AC Ace?"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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Common sense is boring and overrated...DING, DING, DING! We have a winner right here utilizing common sense!
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drumminman wrote: »How about a Sunbeam Alpine Tiger, or an AC Ace?
Or just go for the gusto and get a Cobra
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These EXACT words could describe British cars as well, though I must point out the V12 Vanquish of 2003 and 2004 will dance all over a 911/930, be easier to maintain, safer to drive and give the old man the thrill of driving like he is James Bond. Hell, he may even find himself a Bond Girl for the passenger seat!
That all said and done, as a mechanic I'd stay as far away from anything German as far as vehicles go...when they run good they are great....something breaks and you wish you never saw the car in the first place.
They will also go up in value as time goes by and are at the bottom of their bell-curve.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
John, I would like to adopt you as my son so I could get a Porsche. Carl
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mdaudioguy wrote: »
Yeah, until you spend possibly thousands of dollars and wrap yourself around a tree because you no longer have the reflexes to pull yourself out of a disaster.
But hey if you want to live in a fantasy world, be my guest. Just don't expect any sympathy from me if it goes south.
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Would these people that have or have access to one allow your dad to drive it if he bought full coverage insurance for it while he was driving it?afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
For that much money get an expert inspection of the condition of the car so you know all the potential issues/costs before going in. Take the emotion out of the decision and buy it based on the data/info from the expert inspection. The seller is letting it go that low for a reason. You need to fully understand all the reasons.
I like Legender's advice.
That would be the first step to take. I'd be prepared to shell out some coinage to get a very well qualified opinion from a well qualified expert.
Although you mentioned that you'd be able to get it for <$10K under blue book, the expert's report may/should allow you to get it for even less.
The fact that you are taking these steps will mean a lot to your dad, in and of themselves.
If the expert tells you , "OMG, this car is cherry ! The reframreverberater will need replacing down the road, but that's an easy fix", then fine. Go to the seller, tell them "Nice car, but there are repairs that I'm going to need to do before I'd let my dad behind the wheel. Here's my offer .... $25K below blue book, CASH.".
Hey, you may get an earful, he want to chew some arse, but you certainly aren't the "I need my safe space !" type (and that's a GOOD thing). Go for it.
If that doesn't work out, Tony's idea to rent/lease for a bit to let him get a feel for it is most excellent. If nothing else, it shows your dad that you care by the effort that you're putting out.
The reward's in the effort, not necessarily in the end product. Good luck !
Sal Palooza -
mdaudioguy wrote: »
Yeah, until you spend possibly thousands of dollars and wrap yourself around a tree because you no longer have the reflexes to pull yourself out of a disaster.
But hey if you want to live in a fantasy world, be my guest. Just don't expect any sympathy from me if it goes south.
Some people live, others just exist.Political Correctness'.........defined
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