Harsh highs at high levels. Common?

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CH46E
CH46E Posts: 3,549
in Vintage Speakers
Now that I've got my Parasound amp broken in a bit I've was play some high volumes today and notice the highs just seem to be pretty harsh on the ears. I pulled the treble back to -2 dB and the bass -4 dB because I was using the subwoofers today. 2 ten inch 300 watt each Infinity CMMD drivers.

Is this a common traight for the SL2000 in the SDA2? I tried 2 different sources.

Could this be a sign the caps need replacing? Or am I just asking to much from the srs2?


I am new to the vintage Polk gear. Not sure what I should be expecting.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    The SL2000's have a 5dB spike around 12-13kHz, which can result in a ice pick in ears type sound.

    However, that may only be part of your problem.
    How many wpc is your amp?
    How many hours do you have on the amp?
    What are you using for a pre amp?
    What cables are you using?
    Do you have a dedicated line? If not, what else is on that line?
    At what position on the volume knob are you experiencing the issue?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
    edited September 2016
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    Ok, the amp is 400 wpc at 4 ohms. What my SRS2 are I think. Parasound 2250 v2. 275 at 8 ohms.

    Pre is a 2015 Yamaha RXA 1050 Aventage. Not your everyday run of the mill HTR. I very much like this HTR. It's no slouch.

    The amp has about 200 hours on it now.

    I have a dedicated 10 awg 10-3 line on its own 15 amp breaker. 2 of the 4 lines are grounds. Had an electrician install it all. The decision to go 10-3 with a second ground was based on some info I read from PS Audio. The only thing plugged into the 10 awg line is my Belkin PureAV PF60 conditioner and surge suppressor.

    My RCA between the Yamaha AVR and the Parasound amp is AudioQuest Diamondbacks. The rca, and HDMI from my source, a Denon DVD-2910 to the AVR are RCA AudioQuest King Cobra and Emotiva HDMI.

    I don't have any power lines running online with signal cables. They all cross at 90 degrees.

    With the Yamaha HTR, I have the ability to pull back at just about any frequency and I think I can control the slope also. Should I go in there and pull back 12k to 13k? If so, how many dB should I pull for that range?

    And yes, it was like a ice pic in the ear. I was pretty shocked.

    Thanks for the info guys.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    Ok, your amp should be fine and has enough hours on it to be broken in.

    Using an AVR (don't call it an HTR) as your pre amp is not the best idea as they aren't known for their sound quality.

    Having a dedicated line is great, but replace the 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp.

    Remove the amp from the Belkin PureAV PF60. Plug it in directly.

    Your Denon DVD-2910 doesn't sound bad playing SACD's, but I found the CD playback basically unlistenable as it was way too harsh.
    With the Yamaha HTR, I have the ability to pull back at just about any frequency and I think I can control the slope also. Should I go in there and pull back 12k to 13k? If so, how many dB should I pull for that range?

    Might as well try it, but I think it would be a band-aid fix. Try 5dB.

    Regardless of all the above, swapping the SL2000's for the RD0194-1 would be a good idea.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
    edited September 2016
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    I didn't see an answer to this question. At what position on the volume knob are you experiencing the issue?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
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    F1nut wrote: »
    I didn't see an answer to this question. At what position on the volume knob are you experiencing the issue?

    It's a digital volume knob, just keeps spinning and spinning. Of course I'm splitting hairs here, we all know what you mean. >:)
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    Yeah, yeah.....but that does beg the question, do you have any hair to split? :p
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
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    Also, how old are you? If you're an old boy, you probably can't hear that SL-2000 spike. But if you're not ready for the nursing home quite yet, yeah, get you some RD-0194 (learned that from Doro-not RDO-194. Polk likes its 4 digit ID numbers!).
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
    edited September 2016
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    I will up the breaker tomorrow. Volume position about 0.0 to+ 2-4. I think max volume is set at +16.

    I dropped 3.5 dB from the 12.7khz. At normal volume it seems to help smooth everything out. 2:20 am here. Can play it as loud as I want !


    59rscad61tgx.jpg
    1l0gk0vhyuvt.jpg
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    nbrowser wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah.....but that does beg the question, do you have any hair to split? :p

    Couldn't the same be asked of...you? :smiley:

    Full head of hair.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    CH46E wrote: »
    I will up the breaker tomorrow. Volume position about 0.0 to+ 2-4. I think max volume is set at +16.

    I dropped 3.5 dB from the 12.7khz. At normal volume it seems to help smooth everything out. 2:20 am here. Can play it as loud as I want !


    59rscad61tgx.jpg
    1l0gk0vhyuvt.jpg

    That's really pushing it. -10 should be about the max.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
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    +2-4db is some serious volume.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
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    cnh wrote: »
    Also, how old are you? If you're an old boy, you probably can't hear that SL-2000 spike. But if you're not ready for the nursing home quite yet, yeah, get you some RD-0194 (learned that from Doro-not RDO-194. Polk likes its 4 digit ID numbers!).

    Hahaha, only 38, but spend 5 years in the Marines flying in the CH46E Sea knight Helicopter and shooting big guns. So I'd imagine my ears are more the the 70 tob80 year old range.

    Now that I have pulled the 12.7k down 3.5 dB I can tell a big difference when going through the YPAO volume settings in the EQ. The Manual setting is for sure more pleasing to my ears. I'll crank it up tomorrow to see if it's the same story . As I click through them I can see how bright they were on the other settings vs manual. I'll be on manual for a awhile lol.

    lvotirz5mkwd.jpg
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited September 2016
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    nbrowser wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah.....but that does beg the question, do you have any hair to split? :p

    Couldn't the same be asked of...you? :smiley:

    Full head of hair.

    Damn....was gonna ask if you wanted to buy a follicle.

    Careful! Hair is one of Jesse's BEST features. Impeccable, I'd dare say!
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Like the others have said, change out those tweets first thing. Second, you are playing at pretty high volumes and as Dirty Harry used to say, " A man has got to know his limitations".

    Third....those AQ cables aren't doing you any favors in the higher frequencies. Harmonic tech, Acoustic Zen, MIT, just to name a few will all work well with those SDA's.

    Fourth....placement. Move them just a bit away from a wall or side wall. SDA's really shouldn't be toed in either . If your room is very reflective, drop a throw rug down or get yourself some room treatments.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    F1nut wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah.....but that does beg the question, do you have any hair to split? :p

    Couldn't the same be asked of...you? :smiley:

    Full head of hair.

    And it is a sight to behold. Captivating to say the least!
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
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    CH46E wrote: »
    cnh wrote: »
    Also, how old are you? If you're an old boy, you probably can't hear that SL-2000 spike. But if you're not ready for the nursing home quite yet, yeah, get you some RD-0194 (learned that from Doro-not RDO-194. Polk likes its 4 digit ID numbers!).

    Hahaha, only 38, but spend 5 years in the Marines flying in the CH46E Sea knight Helicopter and shooting big guns. So I'd imagine my ears are more the the 70 tob80 year old range.

    Now that I have pulled the 12.7k down 3.5 dB I can tell a big difference when going through the YPAO volume settings in the EQ. The Manual setting is for sure more pleasing to my ears. I'll crank it up tomorrow to see if it's the same story . As I click through them I can see how bright they were on the other settings vs manual. I'll be on manual for a awhile lol.

    lvotirz5mkwd.jpg

    That is truly a fantastic sounding receiver!

    VERY familiar with it, and it has great set up options!
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  • RandyCroissant
    RandyCroissant Posts: 475
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    You might consider fresh caps and resistors, also get rid of the poly switch while your at it rock on.
    Yamaha RXA1030, Yamaha CD-S2100, Yamaha AS-2200, Bluesound node 2i
    Polk SDA2btl highly modded
    Polk SDA 1C modded
    Polk CS350 LS x2
    Kimber 8TC
    Sony 55" Bravia
    Wish list SVS sub

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 365
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    Swap out the SL 2000s for RDO 194s. Huge difference. I wouldn't have kept mine if I had to use the 2000s.
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
    edited September 2016
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    So I tweak the Parametric EQ some more and I think I've found the sweet spot for my ears. Ended up with the 12k to 13 k down 4.0 dB and 16 down 2db.. I put a slight bump in the 40 hz and a slight bump around 200.

    Thank you guys and gals for the advice, it certainly helped. And yes, I will be looking at some 194s soon. Just want to do the caps at the same time.

    BB King sounds great! 7a3wb4rz0inh.jpg
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
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    RandyCroissant wrote: »
    You might consider fresh caps and resistors, also get rid of the poly switch while your at it rock on.

    Yes, and if I recall I should replace the poly with a .5 ohm resistor????
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
    edited September 2016
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    Pandora? You're streaming 128kbps AAC files if you're using a free ad supported account, there's a part of the issue.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
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    Nightfall wrote: »
    Pandora? You're streaming 128kbps AAC files if you're using a free ad supported account, there's a part of the issue.

    For casual listening Pandora yes. I would not steam anything that loud. Be afraid of an interruption or something. Usually if I playing something really loud it would be a CD, SACD or DVD-Audio.

    I'll will say though, this Yamaha HTR AVR or what ever you want to call it has a great "Enhanced" and "Hi-res" mode for playing lower resolutions like mp3. It does a pretty darn good job with even my blandest recordings I know don't sound great.
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
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    Sure, I understand. And since most my listening is casual most processing is turned off. Only with this new Yamaha have I actually enjoyed the Pure Direct. If I have a SACD in I will put the Denon source into pure direct as well as the Yamaha.

    With my previous Denon HTR I did not like the Pure Direct at all. But then again there was not much if anything I did like with the Denon HTR. I could not wait to get rid of it. My 15 year old Pioneer I have in the living room running TV duty to a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7 v2 bested the Denon in everything except the HDMI capability.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,071
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    I find the "enhancer" option to sound a lot like just a loudness switch on an old piece of equipment. Boosts the treble and bass a bunch.

    Do you ever trip your polyswitches?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • CH46E
    CH46E Posts: 3,549
    edited September 2016
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    No, or at least as far as I kmnow I have never tripped the poly switch. I did loose the lower right sl2000. FAUSTIN was nice enough to send me a replacment.

    Zoe, my Belgium Malinois seems to be enjoying the music. Anytime Im in here playing music she is at my feet.

    76au2634omsc.jpg
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  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 742
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    You can get the RD-0194's before caps. Putting RD-0198's in my M5B's and 5Jr's made a huge difference. The digital EQ may work well enough for now. I'd be curious if you feel that helps them sound less fatiguing. I still have the SL2000's in my 1C's (I'm trying to iron out an RD-0198 swap... longer story) and have gotten a little used to them at average volumes, but after some time, I find I don't enjoy listening as much (fatiguing).

    Another interesting note is a friend who can't hear past ~10KHz :( still heard differences in the SL2000 compared to the peerless tweeter. He found the SL2000's more harsh, especially for music not friendly to the SL2000. Although in his opinion it was not that bad.
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
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    The SL200O tweeter thing, depends on the listener a good bit.

    Someone with rolled off hearing up high, it is not such a big deal. But someone with decent higher range hearing combined with music that is already boosted a bit up high in frequency, it can be quite a bit annoying.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,081
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    The sl2000 tweeter is a poor sounding tweeter at higher levels it tend to really ramp up as the output increases. The RD0 replacement is a far superior tweeter. Get them and don't look back.

    It's a no brainer, really

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,579
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    Let me just toss out my .02

    In my bedroom rig I use a Carver TFM25 and Denon 3805 as a pre. On the TFM25 meters i must push the Denon to +15 on volume to get the meters bouncing up above 100watts on the meters. If i went with -10 the Carver meters wouldn't even be bouncing above 10 watts.

    I run the Denon straight no processing at all just stereo. My theory is the the numbers on the Denon are set to the receiver power when you toss in an external amp those numbers get wonkey. At +15 with no Carver in the mix yes I'd have MAJOR distortion and tweeter dust coming at me.
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