Seeking advice to improve my audio system

Smaug · September 2015

My birthday is coming up, and I'm thinking of upgrading the speakers.

Receiver: Sony STR-DH720
http://smile.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH720-Receiver-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B004QOA92A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442896634&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+str-dh720

Too much automation for my taste, and sometimes, I really have to crank the bass up to get it where I want it. (hearing the lows in orchestral classical recordings and pipe organs) But it's OK for now. I can't afford to upgrade everything at once, so I think speakers and speaker wire need to be first. Also, since I'm just listening to 2-channel sound, I think it is plenty powerful.

Subwoofer: Sony SA-W2500
http://smile.amazon.com/Sony-SA-W2500-Performance-Subwoofer-Version/dp/B000OL3QTW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442896585&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+subwoofer

^ This seems pretty solid to me; it has always done a good job. It's sitting on the carpet, pretty close to the wall, next to the entertainment center. Should I put it on a piece of plywood or something? I was under the impression that won't help much, since bass is omnidirectional. The Room is a small carpeted living room. Apartment, so I can't do anything about the carpeting.

Speakers: Bose 201 Series II
http://smile.amazon.com/Bose-Reflecting-Speakers-Tweeter-Impedance/dp/B005G4RX96/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442896743&sr=8-1&keywords=bose+201+series+ii

^ I've never really been happy with these. Their frequency response looks good on paper, but they never seemed to put out any bass. mids seem weak too.

Speaker wire: Just generic cheap 14 or 16 ga. or so. (speakers are only about 3' away from the receiver) Some folks believe that speaker wire matters a lot. I can't imagine why, electrically, so it must be something else, or its a bunch of hoo-ha. Please educate me. What should I look for without spending an arm and a leg? It's only a short run, and I use the speakers for movies and a huge range of music.

What I'm looking for in a speaker is better lows in the same width footprint as the old 201s, and would also like better mids and highs. (which I understand isn't hard to improve upon) I want to be able to use the speakers on their own, without having to turn on the sub all the time to fill in the bottom. I'll turn it on for "serious" listening, but the rest of the time, I'd like to leave it off. (it IS an apartment, after all...)

The 201s are 10" wide, and just BARELY fit on the entertainment center next to my TV. But I think that is plenty enough room for decent bookshelf speakers. Height and depth are not an issue at all.No room for floor speakers, as it's an 850 sq. ft. apartment with 3 people living here.

I've been reading lots of speaker reviews online, and don't know what all the fancy terminology means: "bright" "sound stage" etc. Seems folks are trying to use visual terms to describe audio, which has me lost.

The speakers I was considering were Polk RTiA3, RTiA1, TSX220b, Fluance XL7S, Boston CS26, Sony SSCS5, JBL ES20 (the only 3-way).

Never heard of Fluance, but those are getting rave reviews. Might be a little weak for what I want to do.

JBLs in my price range have always bass-weak to me, so I'm skeptical here.

The Sonys have no snob appeal, but they are getting good reviews, and I've always been super happy with Sony speakers and headphones. (I have their killer little SRS-X5 BlueTooth speaker; it really rocks; blows the doors off of Bose, JBL, etc. I like the sub too.) I like the idea of 3-way, but I'm not convinced there's any value in hearing up to 50 kHz. The highest resolution I listen to is CD, and maybe the odd BlueRay movie.

The Boston Acoustics have a great price and good reviews.

I'm leaning toward the Polk RTiA3, refurbished from Polk to keep the price down to $300.

Sorry for the wall of text. Hopefully I've given a picture of what I've got to work with.

Edit: I just read a thread where lots of you said RTi's are better for theatre and too bright for music. One thing that I tend not to like about higher end speakers is that the highs tend to hurt my ears.

I'll use the speakers probably 80% for HT, but I'm not very discerning for that use, so I'd like to buy them for music, and however they sound for HT is fine with me.

What's a good choice for something that's not too bright for music in the $200-350 range? (new price) If there's something recently discontinued that's available for a fair price, I'd consider that too.

chumlie · September 2015

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014GSER6O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_3&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Smaug · September 2015

chumlie wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014GSER6O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_3&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Those look good, or maybe the bigger brothers, with the 6.5" woofer:
http://www.amazon.com/DB61-BK-Series-Bookshelf-Speakers-Andrew/dp/B014GSEQ06/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RZXAGSRM6S6BBXHRDXM&dpID=41zNEwhnFGL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128,160_

Not sure if I'd be willing to buy on faith though...

Oh, the bigger ones are 10" wide too, which is pushing it.

F1nut · September 2015

First, that Sony AVR leaves a lot to be desired sound wise. Spec for 2 channel is 105W + 105W @ 8ohm, 1kHz, THD 1%. A distortion level of 1% is extremely audible, not good.

Speaker cable and interconnects matter, a great deal.

It appears that you wish to place the speakers in an entertainment center, so you cannot use a rear ported speaker of any kind. You need to look for a sealed or front ported speaker.

Smaug · September 2015

F1nut wrote: »

First, that Sony AVR leaves a lot to be desired sound wise. Spec for 2 channel is 105W + 105W @ 8ohm, 1kHz, THD 1%. A distortion level of 1% is extremely audible, not good.

Here are the full specs of the receiver. It is 95 W + 95 W into 8 Ω @ 20 Hz - 20 kHz. Also, I rarely play it turned up past 4, and the subwoofer is powered, so I doubt lack of power is an issue for me. (esp. since I'm just looking to play 2 channels worth of bookshelf speakers. No? I've read elsewhere that with good, reasonably efficient bookshelf speakers, not a lot of power is needed.

Speaker cable and interconnects matter, a great deal.

OK, got any recommendations? I'm running the speaker wire directly into the receiver and speakers' clamps.

It appears that you wish to place the speakers in an entertainment center, so you cannot use a rear ported speaker of any kind. You need to look for a sealed or front ported speaker.

They'll go on the flat-topped entertainment center which stands against the wall, so I can place them wherever I want front to rear. I just can't have more separation than about arm's width.

jeremymarcinko · September 2015

I have a pair of those xl7s fluance speakers and they sound much much better than my Rti bookies. The build quality isn't as good as the rti series though, but certainly adequate. They are lighter and covered in vinyl.

Clean application is the key however, so I would look for a good integrated amp to start

tonyb · September 2015

Smaug,

What you need to understand first is everything has something to do with the final sound you'll hear. That said, speakers are or should be your first shot at upgrading but that entry level receiver and the basic wire needs to hit the curb soon also if good sound is your goal. Probably the sub too but that can be last since you are in an apartment.

Being in an apartment, not sure how much low bass you can accept without getting that dreaded knock on the door. That's for you to decide. If you don't mind buying used either, your buck can buy a heck of a lot more.

If you can handle a fairly large bookie, the Polk RT55's have the sound I think your looking for. Not bright, good bass....but they are no longer made so you'd have to find some on the used markets. The Pioneer Andrew Jones bookies sound good and are cheap.

Cables run all over the map but a good place to start is Audioquest. If you can find a used pair of Reality cables also they are a fantastic bang for your buck speaker cable and with your lengths you'd need we are talking under 100 bucks.

Receivers....when it's time, Marantz-Pioneer SC models-Yamaha Advantage models are the most popular around here and for good reason. Harmon Kardon is also good along with Onkyo 7 series on up.

Subs- most like brands from SVS-Velo- hsu.

Places to look for used gear....right here in our FM, your local Craigslist, Audiogon, Hi-fi Shark. Hope that helps some, good luck to you.

Smaug · September 2015

I just went out to my local audio store at lunch. Auditioned the Polk 110b, 220b, Sony SSCS5, Klipsch RP-160M and RP-150M.

Thanks for the push out the door to audition them in person.

The TSX-220b's had great bass, but the mids and highs couldn't seem to keep up. Mighta been able to EQ the bass down; I don't know.

The TSX-110b's were more balanced, but with less bass. Sounded good, but not great.

The -150M's sounded great; balanced and really nice. Not much bass though. ($500/set)

The Sonys sounded about like the -150M's, but with more detail in the mids and highs. Weak lows though. Maybe the best value of all the ones I auditioned at under $200/set.

...but the -160Ms just blew the others away. They sounded like mini-towers. The -160M's were actually cheaper than the -150M's, since they had the -160M's returned w/o box. (but still with 5 year warranty and store warranty) $400 + tax. So I took 'em home. I probably won't need to turn on my sub much any more.

They won't sound quite as good at home as in the store, as I don't have the separation available that they do, nor the big amp.

Picked up some new jacketed 14 AWG, which is probably overkill for my short run and lower power, but my old wire is looking pretty tatty.

I'll think about an integrated amp for down the road.

cnh · September 2015

If you're using a SUB, you really shouldn't worry that much about what the LOWS sound like! The SONY sub you have is OK for a smaller space, but will dissipate very fast in a large room. It is ALSO important NOT to overdrive that sub, which people have a tendency to do.

From your brief audition above it looks like you prefer a FORWARD/BRIGHTER sounding speaker. Klipsch speakers use horns, and the Sonys have a super-tweeter, I believe?

You might like some Polk RTis if you can listen to them?

Those ELAC speakers, might REALLY be worth a listen but they are REAR ported (f1nut) so it would be hard to put those into an entertainments center. But they are the NEW Andrew Jones offering and if they are anything like the previous Pioneer bookies, dare I say even better, they should be at the TOP of your list!

Smaug · September 2015

@ cnh, I bought the Klipsch RP-160M already. They have a horn-shaped bass port on the back and a horn tweeter.

My E-center is not enclosed. More of a wide, low cabinet upon which the TV and speakers sit. I'll take a pic later.

cnh · September 2015

That's probably a good choice considering your listening preferences and the underpowered Sony you're running. Even the Sony receiver should be able to drive those Klipsch horns LOUD(ly)! Klipsch are generally very dynamic and efficient speakers that are a little too strident to some of us for music, but can certainly do Home Theater quite well. Your model should also give you decent bass even without the sub?

I'd play around with placement on your shelf till you tune the speaker to your tastes! (back walls and other boundaries reinforce bass as you move a speaker toward them, but you can move them TOO close and make the bass too sloppy and boomy).

Enjoy!

tonyb · September 2015

I thought he said he wanted a speaker that wasn't bright.....beats me but those Klipsch sure don't fit into that category.

As long as he likes them though, that's all that matters.

Smaug · September 2015

tonyb wrote: »

I thought he said he wanted a speaker that wasn't bright.....beats me but those Klipsch sure don't fit into that category.

As long as he likes them though, that's all that matters.

Most Klipsch, especially the smaller ones I've heard, are too bright for my taste, but these aren't. I dunno...

jeremymarcinko · September 2015

Congrats on the new bookies and Enjoy!!

Smaug · September 2015

Here's a couple shots of my rig, I'd you're curious how it looks.

You can see my kitchen right behind it in one. The sub is hiding under a pair of complete works boxed sets. (Mozart and Bach)

A CD for scale is in one pic.

Thanks for all the advice fellas. You may not feel like it, but you helped a lot.

If anyone from Polk is reading: I wound up not buying Polk at least partly because the dealer (Abt Electronics, in Glenview, IL) only had your entry level stuff. They had a lot of Martin Logan (too expensive for the spec) and Definitive. One Definitive was a finalist with these Klipsch that I wound up going with. Bose was represented by the 301s and 201s. The Klipsch would normally have been way over-budget, but for the $200 "no box discount." $400 was the absolute TOP of my range.

Now, before bed, I've put a couple full CDs through them and a few songs from a few other CDs:
- Bach "Dorian" organ concerto (bassy, without percussion)
- Chocolat soundtrack (great background music)
- Enigma MCM.... Album (a great demo album; it has vocals, bumping bass, and treble effects)
- Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms
- Mozart Sinfonia Concertante (great for instrumental kids and highs, as well as mid bass)

I guess I'm lucky I don't know any better, to where I miss a higher power that I'm told I should pursue. ;-)

cnh · September 2015

Nice looking set up!

Those speakers have a 95db efficiency so they are VERY EASY to power compared to most speakers. A lot of Polks check in at 88-90 db. And many others are in the mid-80s or lower (it's there that you really NEED more power).

You can certainly get away with your Sony on a 95db speaker! That's why you're not feeling you're missing too much at this point. Be happy, that everything sounds "good" because then you won't have to worry about "better", and "best".

Enjoy!

Seeking advice to improve my audio system

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