What do you think about upconverted files?

machone
machone Posts: 1,295
I wanted to get your opinion on upconverted files.
Do you upconvert? If so what do you use to upconvert? If not, why? What formats do you use?

I see many different opinions in different forums.

I rip my CD's to .wav files for storage on my PC, upconvert them to DSD128 on the fly using Korg Audiogate and play them through a Korg DSDAC-100. When I compare the original .wav file with an upconverted DSD file the DSD always wins no matter what the album. It's just better sound, more natural with less fatigue.

I have yet to upconvert and save a file for later playback. Nor have I made a direct comparison between an upconverted file and a DSD download of the same file.

This is all new to me and I find it fascinating.

That's my experience. What say you?
Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought

Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4

Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"

Comments

  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    I dont like pcm to dsd so Irun pcm and only play native dsd. I upsample redbook butnothing lesser.
  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,140
    upsampling- huge waste of time
    The file isn't going to get any more accurate
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,728
    Maybe not more accurate, but wouldn't it have the potential to fill in the gaps and created a smoother or less jagged digital sine wave. I think it could be possible for a more organic wave to produce an arguably better sound. Doesn't an up-converting dvd player provide an improved picture over the standard. Maybe filling in the gaps with similar data can work in audio as well.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    jeremy, please come back to the real world.
  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,728
    Okay I'm back...maybe. All I am saying is there is there may be some premise to support his conclusion. If the OP believes it, then awesome. I have certainly read more outrageous claims. I think maybe.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,295
    With my equipment let me say that upconverted DSD certainly sounds different.
    IMO it is better.
    I have tried upconverting PMC 44.1 to 96 and 192. To me 44.1 and 96 sound the same but 192 sounds more like upconverted DSD. After listening to upconverted DSD the PCM 44.1 and 96 image has no depth.
    I realize that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear but something is going on that works for me. I wish I knew more about the process and why the difference.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    The higher the sample rate the less room there is for errors to come through although that does not always translate into better sound.
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,207
    edited July 2015
    Going up also takes advantage of different filters. I've had it work both ways depending on DAC chip and found it was system dependant as well. IMO there is no absoloute with up-anything that applies to everyone.

    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,313
    I don't think there are any absolutes in audio anything. Like already said, upsampling varies depending on it's implementation. Sometimes it works well, other times not so much. Broad brushes don't do well in audio.

    I much prefer a native signal, I figure the less monkey business going on the better, but my ears tell me some upsampling can be a good thing. If nobody told me it was upsampled, and I judged solely on what I heard, you might be surprised.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    If the analog output of the upconverted file is in any way different than the original, then the upconverter has a problem. Don't we sometimes read about digital components doing things to files that we don't expect or want.
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,295
    I was planning on downloading Jeff Beck's "Blow By Blow" in DSD for comparison with the same album as a CD, 44.1 wav, upcoverted 96 and 192 files as well as upconverted DSD.

    The reason for this album is that it is available from acousticsounds.com in a DSD download and I already have the CD.

    Is it worth the money or is it a waste of time. The website says "DSD file created by Gus Skinas from the original Sony Super Audio CD cutting masters." Would this not sound different because it is probably mastered differently than the CD?
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,295
    If the upconverted file has better imaging and dynamics is more natural, transparent and revealing then something is different but I don't see this as a negative or a problem.

    There are some that say SDA speaker technology is a gimmick but I don't agree. It works for me.

    My goal is to reproduce music that gives me goosebumps. Isn't that what we are all trying to accomplish?
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    Aint sacd and dsd the same thing?
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,313
    edited July 2015
    machone wrote: »
    If the upconverted file has better imaging and dynamics is more natural, transparent and revealing then something is different but I don't see this as a negative or a problem.

    There are some that say SDA speaker technology is a gimmick but I don't agree. It works for me.

    My goal is to reproduce music that gives me goosebumps. Isn't that what we are all trying to accomplish?

    Bingo....absolutely. How you get there is irrelevant.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,295
    "Aint sacd and dsd the same thing?"

    Quote by Andreas Koch:
    "Direct Stream Digital (DSD) actually has been around for a while already, but it has been so married to a physical media, SACD, that it has yet to receive the attention from audiophiles that it deserves. It is only recently with the growing interest in downloading high resolution audio via the internet that DSD surged to the surface of news coverage. What were compelling reasons to use this encoding scheme for SACD over 10 years ago are now becoming convenient truths for the new era of high resolution internet audio."
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,897
    How does one "upconvert" files?
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    afterburnt wrote: »
    How does one "upconvert" files?
    You buy a Dac from either me or Dskip and press a button.
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,897
    But I have stacks of Dacs already but they are all built into stuff.
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    Most dacs these days should give you the input sample rate and have controls to allow you to double it. Like cds and high res pcm can all be upsampled further.
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 14,642
    As PFB says, press a button. Or, if software controlled then select the option. The Lumin will play a file at 'native', or upconvert to a higher PCM rate, or to DSD. I have tried the various options, and while DSD does sound 'smoother', at the end of the day I prefer 'native'.
    Lumin X1 file player; Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,295
    Ditto. The software allows you to select the desired output.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"