Audiogon Dispute: Help Needed ASAP

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falconcry72
falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
in The Clubhouse
Hi folks,

Long time no see. Anyway, I'm in a weird situation on Audiogon and figured I'd seek advice from a community I trust. Here's the deal:

I bought a preamp. I paid immediately via cashier's check. Seller shipped immediately. I received it quickly, and have tested that it turns on, but I have not had time to fully test every input/output. It's been in my possession for 11 days. The seller is now demanding that I leave positive feedback today (meaning I will not have time to fully test it first), or he will "retract and terminate" the sale, forcing me to ship the preamp back to him on my own dime, he will then have his dealer check it out to make sure I didn't damage it before issuing a refund. I obviously do NOT want to do this.

This sounds completely insane to me. There is no way he has any legal ground to do this. I have flagged the listing number and sent an email to Audiogon customer service, but in the meantime, has anyone here EVER heard of anything like this?! How can he demand I return it just because I haven't left feedback... that's nuts! It's mine!

Any help is much appreciated, and I look forward to rejoining the community!

Cheers.

falcon
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
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    I don't see any that he/she has the legal ground to do that. Though I haven't made a purchase through A'Gon, no other sites which I use for online commerce would allow this. Not an expert, just my 2 cents.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
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  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
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    If the check is received, the preamp is YOURS and that's the bottom line.
    I'd get on checking all inputs while the iron is still slightly hot. As for him demanding you to return the item is completely ludicrous. I've only had a handful of transaction on the 'Gon but that seems to be one of the more interesting to date. (aside from PFB stories).

    I'd be slightly curious to see what CS has to say about the matter. Does this guy have a lot of ratings?

    Is this your reunion tour or are you going away again? :)
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited May 2015
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    mrbiron wrote: »
    If the check is received, the preamp is YOURS and that's the bottom line.
    I'd get on checking all inputs while the iron is still slightly hot. As for him demanding you to return the item is completely ludicrous. I've only had a handful of transaction on the 'Gon but that seems to be one of the more interesting to date. (aside from PFB stories).

    I'd be slightly curious to see what CS has to say about the matter. Does this guy have a lot of ratings?

    Is this your reunion tour or are you going away again? :)

    I agree that this is ludicrous. The guy has had an "overly cordial", border-line "legal-sounding" tone to all of his messages, which turned me off to begin with. I think there is a Napoleon-syndrome type thing going on where he needs to prove that he's got a big... err, that he's in charge. He told me this AM that he would "allow" me to post the feedback by 0700 EST before "retracting the sale" and forcing a return. Allow?! lol. Thanks, buddy, but you're in no position to determine what is or is not "allowed".

    Definitely checking all inputs/outputs when I get home. The more I said I needed to do a "full test" the shorter his fuse got.

    I am also interested in Audiogon's take on this. Hopefully he's full of BS and they ban him for even asserting that this was a legitimate option.

    Anyway, Audiogon "rules" certainly do not super-cede federal regulations governing interstate trade... so I'd say I'm safe from a legal perspective.

    You know, I'd like to stick around. I've been inactive on most forums for the last little while (reading more than writing), but CP would be where I'd come back to. Good vibes around this place, and a very vendor-agnostic tone, which is refreshing.

    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,972
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    I always thought that leaving feedback was an option, not a requirement? I have bought severeal items here with no issues and once on the 'Gon again with no issues and seller never requested I leave feedback. Please keep us posted on how this ends.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,372
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    Sounds to me that he just has an obnoxious manner in saying he wants confirmation that the preamp arrived in working condition so he feels the sale is complete. Could be he was burned by a prior sale when someone sent something back to him after saying something didn't work right. Of course once funds are received for payment someone who sells something can not retract the sale. Feedback is a two way street though. If it were me I would just let the seller know I have a busy schedule and will confirm the condition of the unit in the next couple of days and leave appropriate feedback or return the unit for a refund when I am ready to.
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    Emlyn wrote: »
    Sounds to me that he just has an obnoxious manner in saying he wants confirmation that the preamp arrived in working condition so he feels the sale is complete. Could be he was burned by a prior sale when someone sent something back to him after saying something didn't work right. Of course once funds are received for payment someone who sells something can not retract the sale. Feedback is a two way street though. If it were me I would just let the seller know I have a busy schedule and will confirm the condition of the unit in the next couple of days and leave appropriate feedback or return the unit for a refund when I am ready to.

    That is exactly what I did. I told him I had every intention of leaving positive feedback but that I needed a few more days to test total functionality, and he freaked out. Now he has left me a negative feedback blasting me for "refusing" to leave him a positive feedback, which is simply untrue.

    I hope A-gon takes care of this A-wipe and removes my negative feedback.

    Maybe I'll post the messages here... they are slightly comical. lol.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,713
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    So leave him feedback. Warn others not to trade with him, that's the whole point of feedback.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
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    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Now he has left me a negative feedback blasting me for "refusing" to leave him a positive feedback, which is simply untrue.

    I hope A-gon takes care of this A-wipe and removes my negative feedback.

    Maybe I'll post the messages here... they are slightly comical. lol.

    Report him to Agon, AND post this bully's messages.

    Never Forget
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
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    IMO, your story is odd on both accounts. To buy something on the net and not fully test it in 11 days and for the seller to leave bad feedback because of it...is all just odd.

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    WLDock wrote: »
    IMO, your story is odd on both accounts. To buy something on the net and not fully test it in 11 days and for the seller to leave bad feedback because of it...is all just odd.

    I know, I wish I had time to fully test it too. When I first received it I turned it on and listened for a few minutes, but this thing has 22 sets of balanced and single-ended inputs/outputs, so testing all controls over 22 sets of connections will take a couple hours of dedicated time, and I told the dude I'd do it this week, but he literally gave me a 30 minute window to do it. Wait til I post the actual convo, you'll laugh.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
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    I'd suggest that you leave a brutally honest feedback for him ! In it, state that you have a life, and, that it prevents you from dropping everything else to acquiesce to the demands of an unreasonable (unbalanced) vendor........ that now needs to go pound sand. Being paid immediately is the dream of most sellers ! (I thought it was gonna' be a PFB saga when I first saw the thread's topic. We're way overdue for another "installment", yes ?) :D
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  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,842
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    With respect to what the seller and you may and may not do, the written rules of Audiogon to which you subscribed when you joined govern. You should read these rules with care.

    With that said, this guy sounds off the wall, and I wouldn't want to do business with him.

    So, please post honest, straightforward feedback about him for the good of the community.
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited May 2015
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    Moose68Bash wrote: »
    With respect to what the seller and you may and may not do, the written rules of Audiogon to which you subscribed when you joined govern. You should read these rules with care.

    With that said, this guy sounds off the wall, and I wouldn't want to do business with him.

    So, please post honest, straightforward feedback about him for the good of the community.

    Agreed, and the rules of Audiogon state that I have 60 days to leave feedback, not 11, ... as I just confirmed with CS who said they'll remove my negative feedback and "handle the seller accordingly". I will definitely be following up to make sure that "accordingly" = ban.

    Also, CS confirmed that there is never an option for a seller to demand a return of an item they've sold (which the seller told me he had confirmed with a'gon), so his statements were fraudulent and flat out lies.

    When I first posted this this AM, I was somewhat nervous because I thought there might be some rule I didn't know about that entitled the seller to force me to return the item... but the more I've thought about (and now with confirmation from CS), I am positive he is a whack job and I really hope he gets banned. At the very least he'll get an honest and negative feedback from me.

    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,826
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    Tell him you discovered a problem with one of the inputs, and that you're having YOUR dealer check it out. Give that a week or two to sink in, then threaten to send him a repair bill for whatever was wrong.

    At least it'll give you some time to really go over the thing, and it will drive him up the wall at the same time. Win/win.


    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited May 2015
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    Update: just got a message from the seller that he is "no longer accepting the preamp for return". LOLOLOLOL. And that, if I leave him positive feedback, he might contact audiogon about having my negative feedback removed. LOLOLOLOLL.

    Little does he know I've been working with Audiogon CS all day and am literally doing everything in my power to get him permanently banned. What a frickin tool. And to think that I was actually worried for a minute... shoulda known better.

    I do appreciate the support though guys, def made me feel better when I wasn't sure what would happen! Love the Polk family!
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,826
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    Good news.
    I would now completely ignore any further communications from this guy.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,805
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    Where do they come from?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    polrbehr wrote: »
    Good news.
    I would now completely ignore any further communications from this guy.

    For sure. Once he demanded that I was being forced to mail it back I went radio silent and have only been dealing with Audiogon CS since. Here's the latest from CS:

    "I plan on sharing this in my meeting on Wednesday with upper management. The user “XXXXXXX" was way out of line regarding this transaction."

    I will definitely be following up on Thursday to make sure "upper management" is appropriately swift with their ban.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    OMG... I can hardly believe this... so after a few more messages from the seller that became more and more apologetic in tone (none of which I have replied to), the seller says he wants to talk it over... except.... GET THIS... he's at work so he wants me to talk with his WIFE!!! HIS WIFE!!! You gotta be frickin' kidding me. Grow a pair and call me like a man. I am seriously flabbergasted. You could NOT make this stuff up...

    Should I ask her out when she calls???
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,650
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    falconcry72 wrote: »
    OMG... I can hardly believe this... so after a few more messages from the seller that became more and more apologetic in tone (none of which I have replied to), the seller says he wants to talk it over... except.... GET THIS... he's at work so he wants me to talk with his WIFE!!! HIS WIFE!!! You gotta be frickin' kidding me. Grow a pair and call me like a man. I am seriously flabbergasted. You could NOT make this stuff up...

    Should I ask her out when she calls???

    Insist on a Skype, nekkid... :D

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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
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    Obviously the guy came down from whatever drug he was on.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • mrbiron
    mrbiron Posts: 5,711
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    I'd let the WIFE know that the only action of reparation is full frontal...

    Glad it all worked out in the end for you.
    Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    Oh, and I forgot the best part... in the message before the last message, he told me that the reason he has not been himself is that he is caring for his seriously ill wife. Now, I'm a human being, so I could see that being potentially true... but then 5 minutes later he says he's going to have his "seriously ill" wife call me to come to an amicable resolution!!! This is seriously insane.

    What a frickin scumbag. I don't know what's worse: lying about a sick wife or making your sick wife call a stranger to get out of hot water on an audio deal.

    Doesn't really mater... there is only one verdict... BAN!
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
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    No replies to him. Forward everything to Audiogon CS. *Anything* you say that could possibly be taken out of context in any way and be considered offensive could derail your mission to get him banned. Let him dig his own hole, don't offer him the use of your shovel lest you both end up in the bottom of the hole.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,805
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    Audiogon will take whatever action they deem appropriate, but I doubt they will ban him for this and I'd suggest you not push that. BTW, his negative feedback is still showing.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    No replies to him. Forward everything to Audiogon CS. *Anything* you say that could possibly be taken out of context in any way and be considered offensive could derail your mission to get him banned. Let him dig his own hole, don't offer him the use of your shovel lest you both end up in the bottom of the hole.

    100%. My last message was earlier today asking to discuss over a phone call... to which he replied demanding that I mail the preamp back per audigon rules. Since then I have not sent a single reply to him, I have only dealt with Audiogon CS, CS is 100% on my side, and I am sitting here laughing hysterically as these messages trickle in. My coworkers are definitely getting a kick out of it too.

    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
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    Personally I would want feedback as to whether or not the equipment arrived in good working condition within 2 weeks. Even at two weeks it would raise an eyebrow.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
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    madmax wrote: »
    Personally I would want feedback as to whether or not the equipment arrived in good working condition within 2 weeks. Even at two weeks it would raise an eyebrow.

    Agreed, and typically I provide feedback the same day, if not the next. This was an odd case at 11 days, but per Audiogon rules I have 60 days, and it certainly was not deserving of the the attempted fraud that ensued.

    At this point I'm just really hoping that Audiogon doesn't let them off the hook.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,139
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    Been a member there for years. Great place to purchase. Never ran into any seller with this type of personality. Theses one in every crowd.
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  • Farkenhostile
    Farkenhostile Posts: 85
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    My guess is the person is a weak little bully who likes to act like a tough guy online and push people around and scare them into writing positive reviews.

    Most people will fall for this kind of stuff unfortunately and that's why this guy does it.
    You dealt with it perfectly by not letting the snot get away with it.
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