Confused on DAC

JhaymanJhayman Posts: 1,555
edited April 2014 in Going Digital
Ok I've been giving some serious thought to getting a stand alone DAC finally..
Thinking about the Teac UD-501 that was recently reviewed here by Pearsall001 Excellent review by the way..
I thought about this DAC before but was told it was not very good by a few members anyway getting off topic here..
I have a Yamaha RX-A2000 Aventage reciever that uses Burr Brown DAC I was never fond of the sound of it.
However I used to stream my music from my computer using a program called Serviio which would show up on my Yamaha networking menu I would select Serviio then navigate to my music and play..
Now I'm having issues with Serviio so I just put a bunch of music on a USB key and directly plugged it in to the Yamaha and I have to say it sounds much better this way..???
Now I have also upgraded to my new McCormack DNA 500 amp so at the risk of sounding like an idiot, is the music actually better from the USB or is it still the same coming from the computer streaming?
And it's just the new amp making it better?

Hopefully I was coherent in that mess..lol
Thanks
Jamie
ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
Post edited by Jhayman on

Comments

  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,597
    edited April 2014
    Jamie,

    I wish I could help you, but I'm sure there are a lot of other Polkies who know far more about this than I.

    In fact, I'm replying to this thread largely because, like you, I'm in a state of confusion about transports, DACs, and digital sources of all kinds right now. I've been doing quite a bit of reading about various transport/DAC combinations, developments in hi-res technology, etc. I'm confused in part because of my own ignorance about all such things, but in part, I'm convinced, because we are now at a technological inflection point. Therefore, it is not at all clear what a wise long-term investment in a DAC should be.

    For those of us who are largely into digital sources, it appears that CDs and SACDs are not the way of the future, and that hi-res downloads are the way of the future for audiophile-quality recordings and reproduction.

    Hence, I'm looking for a transport and DAC combination that plays "legacy" sources at high quality (that is, plays CDs and SACDs) and that also supports downloads and playback from mass storage devices of new hi-res formats.

    To quote you, "Hopefully I was coherent in that mess..lol," but I doubt that I was.

    I hope some guys who know more than I can chime in here and give us some insight into this "mess."

    Phil
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II; AQ Sky XLRs, McIntosh MC 220 Tube Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • zane77zane77 Posts: 1,711
    edited April 2014
    The Oppo 105 has a great DAC in it and it is also a very good legacy cd, sacd.... player.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
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    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,430
    edited April 2014
    Jhayman wrote: »
    Ok I've been giving some serious thought to getting a stand alone DAC finally..
    Thinking about the Teac UD-501 that was recently reviewed here by Pearsall001 Excellent review by the way..
    I thought about this DAC before but was told it was not very good by a few members anyway getting off topic here..
    I have a Yamaha RX-A2000 Aventage reciever that uses Burr Brown DAC I was never fond of the sound of it.
    However I used to stream my music from my computer using a program called Serviio which would show up on my Yamaha networking menu I would select Serviio then navigate to my music and play..
    Now I'm having issues with Serviio so I just put a bunch of music on a USB key and directly plugged it in to the Yamaha and I have to say it sounds much better this way..???
    Now I have also upgraded to my new McCormack DNA 500 amp so at the risk of sounding like an idiot, is the music actually better from the USB or is it still the same coming from the computer streaming?
    And it's just the new amp making it better?

    Hopefully I was coherent in that mess..lol
    Thanks
    Jamie

    I may have been one of those who said that dac wasn't for me. I know Phil likes it and Little Joe, as he likes to be called. I only heard it once I believe and that was in another persons rig, not mine, but the sound signature didn't seem to tickle my fancy. It may yours....who knows until you try it. I always encourage people to try stuff regardless of who likes it or doesn't like it. For what that dac offers and at it's price point....you almost have to try it just to see. Many here like the W4S dac 2 with dsd, also not my cup of tea but works well for many others. Lots of choices for sure in dacs. Would love to hear the Chord one of these days too...and if Cary ever comes out with a dsd version of the 100t dac of theirs.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,110
    edited April 2014
    I'll elaborate a bit more on Tony's post. Sometimes it isn't the DAC itself, its how it fits into your rig. The W4S didn't take my rig in a direction I liked, but on Halen's system, it created wonderful synergy with the 777's and a B&K amp. If you've got an overly warm system, that TEAC might balance the equation and put your system right where you want it. I haven't heard the TEAC, (should hear it at LSAF this year), but all descriptions I've heard describe it as one that wouldn't work well at all in my rig. I also opted not to pull the trigger on the Musical Fidelity M1Clic because of a stereophile review that explained the SQ as having a warm sound, but doing so at the cost of rounded edges. I'm sure I'd love the Clic's sound, but it was exactly against what I was trying to improve in my system - the rounded edges.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,430
    edited April 2014
    Funny...read the same thing about the Clic and M1 dac....which turned me away also. But again, it's about balancing individual traits of gear to get a final sound you like....and finding cables to compliment it all.

    I'd say try the Teac...your going to constantly wonder anyway if you don't. Trial and error my friend, coupled with excellent advice from others is the only way to make head way in this hobby of ours.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,430
    edited April 2014
    tonyb wrote: »
    Funny...read the same thing about the Clic and M1 dac....which turned me away also. But again, it's about balancing individual traits of gear to get a final sound you like....and finding cables to compliment it all.

    I'd say try the Teac...your going to constantly wonder anyway if you don't. Trial and error my friend, coupled with excellent advice from others is the only way to make head way in this hobby of ours.

    BTW....the USB could have a better implementation in the receiver than the streaming aspect, hard to say. Plus the additional cable. The new amp probably isn't going to change the sound signature your used to from the old amp...both being McCormacks and all. With the addition of a dac though, you can take that receiver out of the equation all together and delegate it to strictly HT use.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,404
    edited April 2014
    tonyb wrote: »
    I may have been one of those who said that dac wasn't for me. I know Phil likes it and Little Joe, as he likes to be called. I only heard it once I believe and that was in another persons rig, not mine, but the sound signature didn't seem to tickle my fancy. It may yours....who knows until you try it. I always encourage people to try stuff regardless of who likes it or doesn't like it. For what that dac offers and at it's price point....you almost have to try it just to see. Many here like the W4S dac 2 with dsd, also not my cup of tea but works well for many others. Lots of choices for sure in dacs. Would love to hear the Chord one of these days too...and if Cary ever comes out with a dsd version of the 100t dac of theirs.
    You are in a very small crowd of people who don't like this DAC, I have heard nothing but praises from the Audiophile community. I have a friend of mine who is a diehard Audiophile and judges gear deeply loves this thing. From what I was told, it's incredibly neutral. I can't speak from any experience yet but I'm gonna get my hands on one soon.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2014
    on sale at Amazon for $688 right now......
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,254
    edited April 2014
    I had been using the dac in my peachtree decco65 which is :built-in ESS Sabre 9023 24-bit/192kHz digital-to-analog converter (DAC) works with the asynchronous 24-bit/192 USB input to deliver jitter-free digital conversion from computer sources.

    but I wanted a SACD player so i got the Marantz 8005 and I'm using its dac now ->rear-panel asynchronous USB input (type B) for audio playback of stored computer or streaming music files, including high-res files up to 24-bit/192 kHz PCM and 2.8 & 5.6 MHz DSD

    but I don't know what DAC it uses, but both sounded awesome to me. but I would think a stand alone dac would be best but I went for the combo. and I'm very happy so far!
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • JhaymanJhayman Posts: 1,555
    edited April 2014
    Thanks guys for all your thoughts on this DAC, Sounds like Derek really know what he's going after.
    As for USB implementation could you elaborate on that a big Tony if you don't mind.
    When I talked with my guy about getting a SACD player he said not too as they are going yo be obsolete in a few more years and parts are getting harder to come by as Sony, I believe he said stopped making transports or is going too..
    I'm just really curious to find out why my music sounds better through USB directly into my Yamaha..and crappier going through my computer through a program called Serviio then networked to my Yamaha..
    Was it Serviio changing the music to my dislike or was it the computer...
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,254
    edited April 2014
    ^^^^

    I would think that going thru USB your not using your sound card but the other DAC. but using your serviio program on your pc you have to be using your soundcards dac which is where the quality problem is?

    Just my quess
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • JhaymanJhayman Posts: 1,555
    edited April 2014
    Thanks Voltz you're probably correct..
    I have a very good sound card in my PC though or at least was 2 years ago..
    I believe it's a Creative Labs Titanium HD I'm running from its optical output to my Yamaha and as I type this I wonder am I even using it as I'm connecting to the Yamaha from the PC input via networking so I think I'm actually by passing the optical output....blah blah I'm confused which comes quickly now a days..lol
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2014
    If you're streaming through the network from PC to Yamaha you are not using your sound card. Also, if one sounds different than the other (USB vs streaming) keep in mind that they both use different interfaces on the Yamaha. The streaming music goes through a network interface before being passed to the DAC and the USB goes through the Yamaha's USB interface. How well each interface is implemented within the AVR is a factor. There is obviously less in the way using the USB stick. The music comes right off of the stick into the receiver. Using the streaming you've got the PC itself and whatever sonic detriments it might add, the player software (Servio) and whatever kind of settings and configuration that uses, you've got cabling and /or wireless transmission, etc. Also, the resolution of the music on the stick might be better than what Servio sends it as.
    And yes, the amp itself can make a huge difference.
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • JhaymanJhayman Posts: 1,555
    edited April 2014
    Thanks dragon1952

    I'm guessing Serviio is colouring the music to my dislike where as the straight from USB approach is less congested..
    Hopefully the Teac solves that problem..when I purchase it soon I hope.
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
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